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I do always find it interesting how much people hype up the Blue Ridge and Shenandoah park, and then downplay the hills/mountains directly connected to them in PA that basically look the same. I really do believe it's simply marketing effects coming into play.
IDK I do feel like Shenandoah park is a bit more scenic than the mountains in PA. But this is not to sell the PA mountains short in any way.
That's fair. I'm still pretty convinced the National Park designation and proximity to the Washington DC metro area is the real underlying source of the perception difference. Pennsylvania's most dramatic looking parts is hours away from any large population center. I remember being pretty surprised when I lived in NC that people would travel to WV and VA to go skiing. Never once growing up in PA did it occur to me that people would actually seek out those places to go for winter sports. The only places people thought of as "real" mountains and not just large hills were in Vermont and north.
One thing that separates New Jersey's coastal area versus places south of it is the Pine Barrens. Which is a pretty interesting geographical area where you will find things like Cranberry bogs. It's a pretty area to explore.
That's fair. I'm still pretty convinced the National Park designation and proximity to the Washington DC metro area is the real underlying source of the perception difference. Pennsylvania's most dramatic looking parts is hours away from any large population center. I remember being pretty surprised when I lived in NC that people would travel to WV and VA to go skiing. Never once growing up in PA did it occur to me that people would actually seek out those places to go for winter sports. The only places people thought of as "real" mountains and not just large hills were in Vermont and north.
One thing that separates New Jersey's coastal area versus places south of it is the Pine Barrens. Which is a pretty interesting geographical area where you will find things like Cranberry bogs. It's a pretty area to explore.
IDK I do feel like Shenandoah park is a bit more scenic than the mountains in PA. But this is not to sell the PA mountains short in any way.
Yeah, I think the Blue Ridge Mountains have a bit more height in spots in VA, so I can understand that perspective. But what does separate PA is more consistently hilly and very little flat topography in any part of the state (like the 5th least in the country).
Flat, coastal plain comprises significant portions of VA, MD, and DE, but they do get some nice beaches out of it.
In my opinion, the Yankee-ish part of Pennsylvania (i.e., the northern tier of the state located on or near U.S. Route 6) has a different character than the rest of the state. For example, towns such as Waverly, Wellsboro and Waterford feature more detached homes constructed of wood (instead of brick or stone) that are situated on larger, leafier lots. If you were blindfolded and plopped in one of those towns, you might think you were just outside of Pittsfield or Rochester.
Yeah, I know what you are talking about. I am familiar with US Rte 6 in the Poconos, and the terrain reminds me of the Catskills. The very rocks look similar along with the vegetation. Actually, I read somewhere the Poconos are related to the Catskills, just more gentle and rolling.
It stands to reason that there would be some cultural overlap between two bordering states. Indeed, there is a village in the Finger Lakes called Penn Yan.
Thank God - the existing bridge is in horrendous condition.
Even though Delaware and the Eastern Shore of Maryland are not that much further south than New Jersey, the climate allows for a slightly longer "high season," in addition to the growth of more interesting vegetation (as I indicated in an earlier post on this thread). For example, when I visited Sussex County, Delaware in late November 2022, the daily high temperatures were hovering in the high 50s and low 60s. I was informed by several people that mild weather is fairly normal and standard for the area until early-to-mid December.
I live in Southern New Jersey and I disagree. Last summer was quite hot and fall warmer than usual.
Just so people are clear, Delaware beaches are considered the "local" beaches as are Ocean City, MD to people West of the Chesapeake Bay. It is a regularity to consider Rehoboth, Bethany along with OC the "regions" (meaning Washington-Baltimore-Nova) Atlantic coastal beaches. All it takes is a look at the Bay Bridge traffic on any random weekend with better than mild weather to see the impact. They are building an entirely new bridge because of this.
Therefore right to place those three states together in a bunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outer_Bluegrass
Thank God - the existing bridge is in horrendous condition.
I think it would be right to put the three states together in a single bunch even if there were no Bay Bridge at all, since all three share the peninsula that bears their combined names ("Delmarva").
But it looks like the project to build a replacement for the existing two Bay Bridge spans is a race against time, if this video produced by Queen Anne's County (the eastern touchdown point of the two current spans) this past summer is any guide. Seems that it's only now entering stage 2 of the environmental review process.
Meanwhile, the Maryland Transportation Authority is in effect continuing to apply Band-Aids to the two current spans. (Though I must wonder why a four-mile long bridge with a suspension span built in 1952 would have a design life of only 50 years. If the same is true of the westbound span (three lanes, one used as contraflow, opened ~20 years after the first), then Maryland's been dragging its feet on this. And I still wonder why the state would build such an important span with such a short design life. Many of the suspension bridges further up the coast are nearing their centennials or have passed them already, and the condition of the three that are either contemporaries or younger doesn't seem to be as parlous.)
And the state exacerbated the problem by upgrading US 301, which crosses the spans en route from Wilmington, Del., to Virginia, to a toll freeway.
Shifting gears for a minute to the relative merits of the two Ocean Cities: I'd say that OCMD is now more overbuilt than the one in New Jersey since that bridge touched off a construction boom that lined the beachfront with one high-rise apartment tower after another marching from the center of town right up to the Delaware line.
VA gets the edge because it has more geographical diversity, though not by much. Shenandoah is arguably the most beautiful area of the entire region in question. Both have countless historical sights and charm, so that can go either way. PA has more urban charm though whereas VA has some of the most soulless, most sprawling suburbs in the region (which PA also has). Idk, but urban decay or grit can be aesthetically appealing/interesting to me so I don’t cross that out as “ugly” I see a beautiful history when I look at “run down” areas of PA compared to the urban sprawl in places like NoVa. But overall, VA gets the edge when you consider the Atlantic Coastline.
NJ > MD/DE
NJ has more walkable towns with the most variety (architecturally) among its suburbs. Like there’s less of the soulless sprawl compared to the other two (with a more extensive transit system, making it easier to get around and enjoy the beauty of things on foot). It has the superior beach towns/coastline too. Delaware in particular is a state that’s no different from the coastal plains of southern NJ, Eastern MD/VA. Most to all of the towns are heavily car dependent and quintessentially American, though Rehoboth & Bethany Beach are quite charming in their own way.
Maryland comes seriously close to NJ with a lot of charming/walkable towns though, so we can agree to disagree on this all day. Baltimore as a city is more beautiful than Newark, but I wouldn’t put it above Jersey City or Hoboken where you have things like the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty all in plain view which adds on to the beauty. Western MD may have NJ beat in terms of Appalachia, but it’s really not by much.
Last edited by AnubisMoon; 02-27-2023 at 09:17 PM..
VA gets the edge because it has more geographical diversity, though not by much. Shenandoah is arguably the most beautiful area of the entire region in question. Both have countless historical sights and charm, so that can go either way. PA has more urban charm though whereas VA has some of the most soulless, most sprawling suburbs in the region (which PA also has). Idk, but urban decay or grit can be aesthetically appealing/interesting to me so I don’t cross that out as “ugly” I see a beautiful history when I look at “run down” areas of PA compared to the urban sprawl in places like NoVa. But overall, VA gets the edge when you consider the Atlantic Coastline.
NJ > MD/DE
NJ has more walkable towns with the most variety (architecturally) among its suburbs. Like there’s less of the soulless sprawl compared to the other two (with a more extensive transit system, making it easier to get around and enjoy the beauty of things on foot). It has the superior beach towns/coastline too. Delaware in particular is a state that’s no different from the coastal plains of southern NJ, Eastern MD/VA. Most to all of the towns are heavily car dependent and quintessentially American, though Rehoboth & Bethany Beach are quite charming in their own way.
Maryland comes seriously close to NJ with a lot of charming/walkable towns though, so we can agree to disagree on this all day. Baltimore as a city is more beautiful than Newark, but I wouldn’t put it above Jersey City or Hoboken where you have things like the NYC skyline and the Statue of Liberty all in plain view which adds on to the beauty. Western MD may have NJ beat in terms of Appalachia, but it’s really not by much.
Actually, something I'd recommend anyone passing through New Jersey do if they get a chance is head into New York State via I-287 rather than the Hudson River crossings.
The last section of the beltway around Greater New York to be completed (in the late 1980s) hugs the side of a mountain. Look down into the valley next to the highway and you'll swear you're looking at a New England town.
Delaware is pretty featureless, with the only significant features being the Delaware Bay/River, and a 25-mile portion of the Atlantic Ocean. Delaware's highest point is even lower in elevation than the highest hill just down the road from where I am in central Maryland, just a few miles west of I-95. It clearly trails the rest.
New Jersey's southern two-thirds is no different than Delaware, with the exceptions of a longer coastline. North Jersey is really what separates it, with the Delaware Water Gap, higher hills (not quite true mountains), a portion of the Hudson Valley, as well as a section of New York Harbor.
Maryland comes next. Like DE and NJ, it has a large flat, featureless coastal plain section with a small coastline like DE, but the Chesapeake Bay obviously provides a nice change in pace of scenery, and there's also more rivers like the Patapsco, Patuxent, and the Potomac, along with a more rugged western portion.
Pennsylvania is the runner up. It is the hilliest of this quintet, with the only relatively flat portions being in its northwest and southeastern quarters, the former containing a piece of Lake Erie and the later featuring part of the Delaware valley. Its large mountain systems, including its ridge and valley section in the middle as well as the Appalachian Plateau in the western end of the state, along with a nice lineup of rivers and a noticeably more forested area makes it appealing.
But the Old Dominion still comes out on top here. It basically takes what make Maryland and Pennsylvania fine, and adds it to a new level, including higher mountains, more rivers, and pastoral piedmont scenery. Its the only state with a national park, and you can't forget its portion of the Blue Ridge Parkway.
Overall, MD/VA/DE by a rather narrow margin.
^ This is also my ranking. Virginia edges out Pennsylvania.
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