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Downtown Brooklyn, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Fort Green, Dumbo, Bay Ridge Long Island City Queens, Flushing, Downtown Jamaica Queens, Jackson Heights, Astoria
In the metro area outside of NYC
Jersey City, NJ
Hoboken, NJ
Stamford, CT
Downtown Newark, NJ
Downtown White Plains, NY
Downtown New Rochelle, NY
Downtown New Haven, CT
South Norwalk, CT
The above highlighted are definitely NOT affordable anymore, especially Dumbo and Greenpoint! They haven't really been affordable for quite some time, but in the past year, they have become horrifically unaffordable and part of the definition of the rent crisis NYC is facing. My friends in a horrifically small 1 BR East Williamsburg apt had their $2700/moth rent increased by 35% to $3645 and are considering leaving the city because they cannot get a good deal in a short period of time. I wouldn't call the bolded "outer areas" of NYC either, as since the 2000s these areas are arguably more desirable than most of Manhattan.
Chicago isn't "underrated" though is it? Philly may be.
Chicago is underrated as measured by cost to urban experience.. but you pay the price in other ways. For better or worse, Chicago's other shortcomings keep the urban experience per dollar ratio pretty high.
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Originally Posted by 2Easy
LA is underrated for urban living, but would surely lead major cities if quantifying the "least bang for your buck".
Depends on what you want for your buck. If you want an urban experience for your buck... probably not. If you want access to everything a world-class metro area could offer (even if it's a pain to get to much of it) combined with wide variety of outdoor activities year-round... well, that's why your buck doesn't go far for the "urban" experience. People are buying the setting as much or more than the city. The utter lack of such a setting is a big reason why Chicago is so much cheaper than LA despite delivering first-rate urban amenities.
I thought the vlogger was restricting his observation to the City of New York, in which case, the only other part is Staten Island. (Edited to add: and now that I've watched the video, I see I was wrong).
Population flows between it and other cities are rather small.
Most of the New Yorkers decamping for Philadelphia (more people move between these two cities than between any other pair of cities in the country, for reasons that can probably be ascertained by looking at a map) come from Brooklyn, and the population flow between the two cities has been net towards Philadelphia at least since 1990. (FWIW, the population flow between Philadelphia and the borough of Manhattan, however, is net towards Manhattan.)
I'd be interested where this data comes from. I'd always assumed that the two nearby cities with the larger number of commuters, as well as people relocating to one of the two cities, would be Baltimore and Washington DC. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'd love to see some numbers though, either way.
And yes, as an affordable, walkable place I think Baltimore is wildly underrated. People hear about the crime there and they're scared off, but like everywhere, there are good neighborhoods, and people living in those have no need to visit the worst parts of the city. Rents and home prices, even in the most expensive neighborhoods, are relatively low, the city's got a ton of amenities, and some areas are walkable to a great extent--meaning that you could walk to shopping, dining, and for everyday necessities like a drug store or dry cleaners. Plus, the townhouse architecture is great. No huge mass transit system, but it can be car-light. I've always enjoyed myself there. I think Baltimore is a sleeper, and hope the more people will discover it.
I'd be interested where this data comes from. I'd always assumed that the two nearby cities with the larger number of commuters, as well as people relocating to one of the two cities, would be Baltimore and Washington DC. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'd love to see some numbers though, either way.
Given their current respective states, I'd have to guess any such movement between Baltimore and DC is almost entirely one way. I can see what Philly and NYC each offer to some residents of the other to make moving from one to the other worthwhile. I lack the imagination necessary to envision what one might gain by heading to Baltimore compared to what they lose by decamping from DC.
I know folks who live in Baltimore and commute to jobs in and around DC. The main reason for moving to Baltimore is obvious--the price differential in housing. And I suspect that this has been gaining as WFH has increased. I've also met at least one Washingtonian (an academic) who prefers living there, but commutes to Baltimore as needed. And of course, day trippers go from either city to the other for sports events, concerts, museum shows, and the like. Short drive and easy trains. So no, the human traffic between the two is not entirely one-sided. And there does seem to be a lot of it, at least anecdotally. But like I say, I don't know what data exists on this sort of "paired cities" movement.
But my point is still that Baltimore is an under-valued urban space, largely off the radar screen because of its terrible crime stats, while in many areas it is quite pleasant, walkable, and urbane.
Pittsburgh does indeed have many walkable self-contained neighborhoods where you can live sans car or "car-lite". South Side Flats, Lawrenceville, Oakland, Downtown, the Strip District, Bloomfield, Shadyside, Allegheny West, East Allegheny, Squirrel Hill, Mt. Washington, and the Mexican War Streets all come to mind as premier urban neighborhoods with tons of walkability.
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Originally Posted by Marv95
Oakland, Bloomfield, Shadyside & Squirrel Hill are the only ones I would consider walkable where people who don't have a car would find it easier to reside FT. The rest are either too hilly to walk or ghetto. I liked nearby Dormont but those hills wore me out.
Looking at your neighborhood lists, I think SteelCityRising's list consists of various neighborhoods including ones that aren't part of a large contiguous expanse of walkable areas such as South Side, Downtown, Mt. Washington, etc. that are small, self-contained walkable parts with some transit access to each other and other parts but are not very large by themselves. Marvy95's list is a larger contiguous area of multiple neighborhoods and with Friendship and East Liberty forms a larger East End contiguous bloc of walkable areas. I think having such a large contiguous bloc is pretty rare for most US cities especially of Pittsburgh's size and that's quite nice. Plus, Pittsburgh has pretty decent transit including its bus network for a US city of its size.
I do think having a large contiguous bloc of good walkability really makes it a lot more interesting since it gives things you variety of sights, sites, things, and people to get to. I did a topic on this using walkscore and the East End bloc is pretty sizable: https://www.city-data.com/forum/62809685-post92.html For that I was using a fairly high 90 score threshold and it's already quite big and expands significantly at the 80 threshold. It'll be interesting to see how development in the Strip District goes as that might eventually mean downtown Pittsburgh then becomes part of the contiguous bloc.
Hopefully something better comes along and/or walkscore updates to 2020 census numbers because I think it's an interesting topic.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 09-23-2022 at 08:41 AM..
Jersey City, Stamford, Hoboken, and Norwalk are very very expensive.
New Haven is outside NYC realm.
Although, White Plains, New Rochelle I agree with... even places like Morristown.
Re: New Haven - it’s yes and no. For example, it’s default local TV stations are mostly Hartford based with a few NYC while FFC is in the NYC TV market and has all the CT local channels except Fox.
The direct line to NYC via Metro North commuter rail will always keep New Haven in the wider NYC realm, just not as tightly as FFC. New Haven also looks to NYC instead of Boston or even Hartford first as the big city nearby - generally speaking.
As for the places mentioned, you can find affordable spots but it will obviously require more work.
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