Minneapolis v. Milwaukee v. Detroit v. WNY (largest, places, population)
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So, given that housing makes up the biggest portion of cost of living(about 30%), that is something to consider.
On a side note, in terms of Detroit, within the city you would probably be best looking into the Villages(East English, Indian, West, etc.); the University District, Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods, Green Acres and Corktown, among some others.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 10-21-2022 at 08:44 AM..
You’d probably get the most bang for your buck in Milwaukee. Minneapolis/ St. Paul will probably have the most to offer considering it’s size but will be more expensive than all others on the list. Detroit, although making strides to get better you’d probably be best looking in the suburbs. WNY has the best access to scenic walks and hikes….
Yeah I'd say Minneapolis/Saint Paul is the outlier in the list. Simply because, economically, it's very healthy by any standard and continues to see growth across healthcare and tech segments. Few northern metros can really say the same.
Of course, that means higher incomes and higher cost of living. So if the OP is making $200k, and that won't change regardless of area, it might not be the best choice.
I do think it's the nicest city/metro, by a good margin, on the list.
Yeah I'd say Minneapolis/Saint Paul is the outlier in the list. Simply because, economically, it's very healthy by an standard and continues to see growth across healthcare and tech segments. Few northern metros can really say the same.
Of course, that means higher incomes and higher cost of living. So if the OP is making $200k, and that won't change regardless of area, it might not be the best choice.
I do think it's the nicest city/metro, by a good margin, on the list.
Indeed, personally I’d be between Milwaukee and Minneapolis. I like the proximity of Milwaukee to Chicago and Madison, WI.
I would choose Western Upstate NY for sure. I would perhaps even encourage you to expand a bit east to include Syracuse in this. I am not sure about health care there, but ckhthankgod lives in suburban Syracuse (I think) and is our forum's Syracuse expert. I only visited Syracuse once (to tour the university), but the city left me with a positive impression.
Housing is very reasonably-priced in Buffalo, Rochester, or Syracuse. You have urban walkable neighborhoods that are generally safe in all three cities. All three cities have real winters and are within an hour's drive of great hiking areas. You may even want to consider a city like Batavia that is near to both Rochester or Buffalo or a city like Geneva that is near to both Rochester or Syracuse.
As a gay male I am considering Upstate NY as a "refugee" because our GOP gubernatorial candidate here in purple Pennsylvania wants to push to overturn same-sex marriage if elected. Upstate NY's cities are up my alley---lots of snow in the winter; walkable neighborhoods; lots of tree-lined streets; generally good health care; reasonable housing prices.
Keep in mind that these are Downtown to Downtown distances.
Rochester is a bigger area with about 1.1 million people in the metro area, while Madison is more on par with Syracuse in metro area population(650-700,000 range). The Buffalo and Rochester metro areas touch and have about 2.2-2.3 million people between them.
So, the proximity aspects for Milwaukee and Buffalo are essentially a wash, if not actually slightly more towards Buffalo. This is not considering the mountain/hiking and even water aspects, as well as the lower median home prices or that the average annual wage for both the Buffalo and Milwaukee areas is essentially the same. Milwaukee: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_33340.htm#00-0000
I'll throw out another "non-vote" for Grand Rapids. One million plus person metro, steadily growing, diversified economy etc. Also 3hrs from Chicago, 2hrs from Detroit. Specifically if you search in the 49504, 49503, and 49506 zip codes you will find many walkable neighborhoods. I'd recommend looking in the West side neighborhood based around Bridge St. first. You can walk for almost all of your amenities in that neighborhood, and it has access to several transit lines as well.
Additionally Grand Rapids is at the base of the Manistee Nat'l Forest with plenty of outdoor recreation/hiking in about a 30 min or less drive. Grand Rapids is also perched near Michigan's "gold coast" which arguably has the best beaches in all of the great lakes.
This doesn't even get into the plentiful wilderness and options in Michigan's north country. Michigan's west side in general tends to be much more forested and hilly than other parts of the Midwest. I agree that it has similar vibes to WNY.
With some scattered around the area. You can also take a drive to say Skaneateles or Cazenovia for more upscale spots like these here: https://www.thekrebs.com/menus/dinner
If you are into the arts, you have a good scene in that regard as well(professional theater, opera, orchestra, ballet, museums, festivals, etc.): https://www.syracusearts.net/default.cfm
In terms of neighborhoods, within the city, I'd say to look into the Westcott/University area(inc. Outer Comstock), Meadowbrook(those 2 areas run together); Sedgwick, Eastwood(last two are next to each other); Strathmore and South Valley(south of Seneca Turnpike) as some options. For suburbs, villages such as Liverpool, Baldwinsville, Manlius, Fayetteville(last 2 are in the same (very good) school district); North Syracuse and the previously mentioned communities(Skaneateles and Cazenovia). The DeWittshire/Orvilton area of DeWitt(around East Genesee street just east of the town/city line) is another area that comes to mind.
From one former Rochesterian to another, I would love to recommend a return to the Flower City and I actually think it would be a perfect fit. Rochester checks all of your boxes. The cost of living is quite low where you’d still be able to comfortably afford a beautiful home for under $300k just about anywhere in Monroe County. There’s of course no shortage of snow and summers are not nearly as oppressive as in other parts of the country. Lake Ontario is a wonderful asset. Top notch healthcare is plentiful with Strong Memorial/URMC being a top rated hospital in the state. Rochester General has a very good system as well, speaking from experience.
Now, Rochester is definitely a walkable city. I find the neighborhoods are very well connected with the city newly investing in pedestrian infrastructure and bike paths popping up all over. The only strike against this category is the shortage of grocery stores within city limits. Downtown is experiencing a massive revitalization effort so that may change soon, but I wouldn’t expect a full service grocery to open there until at least 2024 when the Neighborhood of Play project is complete and Constellation Brands opens their new HQ.
That leaves the Southeast quadrant of the city for you today, which is okay. I actually think North Winton Village would be the number one neighborhood to consider for you guys. You may already be familiar, but the adjacent streets are some of the most beautiful tree lined ones in the city. It’s on the edge of city limits and bordering Brighton, one of the most diverse and affluent suburbs. North Winton puts you in a walking distance of well under 15 minutes to the East Ave Wegmans and a newer Aldi location. Not to mention a commercial strip of mom and pop restaurants along Winton between Merchants and Blossom. Cobbs Hill and Tryon Park are right there too for a midday escape. The former provides a picturesque view of the skyline.
Rochester likewise puts you right at the convergence of the Great Lakes and Finger Lakes regions, a few short hours from the peaks of the Adirondacks and scattering of gorges, waterfalls throughout WNY and CNY. Whether or not you decide to relocate, Letchworth State Park is a must-see.
As much as I love the city, I don’t always recommend Rochester to posters here. There are legitimate drawbacks such as a lagging economy, urban poverty and crime. However in your situation and amongst the other cities on your list I think it’s easily the way to go.
The shoreline of Lake Michigan, as well as the smaller lakes nearby, provide extensive recreational opportunities for residents of western Michigan. In addition to the sandy beaches, the sand dunes feature many forested hiking trails, which I did not expect to find.
Also, as another poster mentioned upthread, western Michigan has a brighter future than western New York, despite similarities in climate, culture and history between the two regions. Western Michigan has more new development than western New York, which makes it feel sleeker and tidier by comparison. In all honesty, I was surprised by how much newer Michigan looked and felt compared to most states in the Northeast.
The shoreline of Lake Michigan, as well as the smaller lakes nearby, provide extensive recreational opportunities for residents of western Michigan. In addition to the sandy beaches, the sand dunes feature many forested hiking trails, which I did not expect to find.
Also, as another poster mentioned upthread, western Michigan has a brighter future than western New York, despite similarities in climate, culture and history between the two regions. Western Michigan has more new development than western New York, which makes it feel sleeker and tidier by comparison. In all honesty, I was surprised by how much newer Michigan looked and felt compared to most states in the Northeast.
I’m not sure, as Buffalo has had a lot of recent developments within the past decade and the Rochester metro area has never had a population loss in an official census. Plus, I believe it is a more populated area that is next to one of the bigger CSAs/regions in North America.
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