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San Jose is its own city separate from San Francisco. I mean, it has its own metro area even.
I think this statistical fact is largely because Santa Clara County (where SJ is) has so many large employers. A lot of people living in Santa Clara Co. have jobs there and don't commute to SF or the East Bay, so the commute share to SF/East Bay counties is below the threshold needed to be one MSA. Nevertheless, they essentially function as one metro area in most ways.
This is what the border between Santa Clara Co. (SJ MSA) and San Mateo Co. (SF MSA) looks like: https://goo.gl/maps/vAeazv99hMFjcGp29 Walk over to that white pickup and you're in the SF MSA.
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As for Naperville, that is a fair point. What companies are located in Naperville? How is the public transit? Is the population density high in neighborhoods within the city?
I can't name a lot of specific companies off the top of my head, but I do know the Naperville/Aurora/Lisle area is somewhat big (by Midwest standards) in STEM employment. Fermilab is located there. (EDIT: First Alert, Molex, Mitutoyo, Redbox, Tellabs, Westell, etc.)
As for public transit, Naperville has a few stations on the Metra commuter rail system.
Tacoma might fit the bill here. It's part of the Seattle MSA, about 34mi from downtown to downtown. Commuter rail does run between the two. Decent food scene, some really nice walkable areas, sizeable outpost of UW/WSU etc. Expanding light rail within the core.
Tacoma might fit the bill here. It's part of the Seattle MSA, about 34mi from downtown to downtown. Commuter rail does run between the two. Decent food scene, some really nice walkable areas, sizeable outpost of UW/WSU etc. Expanding light rail within the core.
Would Tacoma exist without Seattle? Seems to be a pretty old and established city. Kind of like St. Paul, MN to Minneapolis or Newark, NJ to NYC.
We haven't really talked about food yet. It would be nice to get options for all these cities. Do you know of any restaurants in Tacoma?
San Bernardino would be the more accurate choice for Southern California instead of Long Beach. Long Beach has port access so it might not be as reliant on L.A as oppose to S.B county.
Distance from Los Angeles downtown to San Bernardino - 60 miles
For pure distance and uninterrupted development, I'd probably pick somewhere in Suffolk County, Long Island. Randomly glancing at a map, a place like Patchogue is 58 miles to midtown, and is complete suburban / urban sprawl between there and Manhattan. Heck, you could probably go all the way east to Riverhead, which is 75 miles. These are clearly not the largest, but they may be the farthest afield, and there's no debating whether they are a suburb or a standalone city (they are ALL suburbs out there).
MSAs aren't a good way to determine what's a suburb, a secondary city surrounded by suburbia, or a primary city. They're simply convenient and semi-relevant to a discussion like this. Being the only government agency to establish a system of any kind doesn't make them the authority on this subjective and nuanced topic.
My take: Baltimore is a primary city that's close enough to a peer that some of its edges are shared. San Jose is a secondary city that looks to the urban core and has incorporated a lot of suburbia. Oakland is a secondary city that's pretty urban for much of its area. Fort Worth is somewhere in between, along with Tacoma. Cambridge and Jersey City are parts of the core that happen to be broken off into other municipalities for reasons that mattered more a long time ago.
The answer is it's a gray area in every situation...what's really a suburb here?
Therefore I have no answer. The more a place has a real core and real density, the less it's a suburb. So where do I draw the line? Maybe it's somewhere newish and not a center but still pretty dense, like a lot of the West Coast and Miami area.
While a lot of Fort Worth is suburban, it does not qualify. Fort Worth is its own individual and independent city with its own downtown. If we include Fort Worth, there’s a lot of sunbelt cities we can add
MSAs aren't a good way to determine what's a suburb, a secondary city surrounded by suburbia, or a primary city. They're simply convenient and semi-relevant to a discussion like this.
My take: Baltimore is a primary city that's close enough to a peer that some of its edges are shared. San Jose is a secondary city that looks to the urban core and has incorporated a lot of suburbia. Oakland is a secondary city that's pretty urban for much of its area. Fort Worth is somewhere in between, along with Tacoma. Cambridge and Jersey City are parts of the core that happen to be broken off into other municipalities for reasons that mattered more a long time ago.
The answer is it's a gray area in every situation...what's really a suburb here?
Therefore I have no answer. The more a place has a real core and real density, the less it's a suburb. So where do I draw the line? Maybe it's somewhere newish and not a center but still pretty dense, like a lot of the West Coast and Miami area.
+1 and excellent breakdown. That is really what I was getting at and I tried to make the criteria strict enough, but I don't think I did a great job of that. I chose Gaithersburg, MD as an example for people to follow looking at other cities around the nation. It is truly a suburb.
San Bernardino would be the more accurate choice for Southern California instead of Long Beach. Long Beach has port access so it might not be as reliant on L.A as oppose to S.B county.
Distance from Los Angeles downtown to San Bernardino - 60 miles
So, I think people making the LA selections need to read this below:
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Originally Posted by mhays25
MSAs aren't a good way to determine what's a suburb, a secondary city surrounded by suburbia, or a primary city. They're simply convenient and semi-relevant to a discussion like this. Being the only government agency to establish a system of any kind doesn't make them the authority on this subjective and nuanced topic.
My take: Baltimore is a primary city that's close enough to a peer that some of its edges are shared. San Jose is a secondary city that looks to the urban core and has incorporated a lot of suburbia. Oakland is a secondary city that's pretty urban for much of its area. Fort Worth is somewhere in between, along with Tacoma. Cambridge and Jersey City are parts of the core that happen to be broken off into other municipalities for reasons that mattered more a long time ago.
The answer is it's a gray area in every situation...what's really a suburb here?
Therefore I have no answer. The more a place has a real core and real density, the less it's a suburb. So where do I draw the line? Maybe it's somewhere newish and not a center but still pretty dense, like a lot of the West Coast and Miami area.
California has so many secondary cities surrounding LA that would exist without LA the selection for LA may be difficult. Maybe think much smaller without a pull?
San Bernardino would be the more accurate choice for Southern California instead of Long Beach. Long Beach has port access so it might not be as reliant on L.A as oppose to S.B county.
Distance from Los Angeles downtown to San Bernardino - 60 miles
San Bernardino is not only not a suburb of Los Angeles, its the cultural and geographic core of an entirely different metro area. People like to think it is so they can make statements like, "well L.A. is a city of 18 million."
Similar dynamic with San Jose, which has been decidedly its own metro and major city since at least the 1960's.
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