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I used the 1960 map of the city of Charlotte to define its core. Charlotte in 1960 covered 64.8 miles roughly the same size as Richmond is now. These are now Charlotte’s inner city neighborhoods or core neighborhoods. Richmond’s population was greater than Charlotte in 1960. Charlotte population 1960 201,000 Richmond Population 220,000. Charlotte did not start aggressively annexation of land until the 1960’s.
I used the 1960 map of the city of Charlotte to define its core. Charlotte in 1960 covered 64.8 miles roughly the same size as Richmond is now. These are now Charlotte’s inner city neighborhoods or core neighborhoods. Richmond’s population was greater than Charlotte in 1960. Charlotte population 1960 201,000 Richmond Population 220,000. Charlotte did not start aggressively annexation of land until the 1960’s.
They're still annexing. Where I currently live was just outside of the city 2 years ago. Now, I'm literally on the outer edge of the city. Google maps hasn't had a chance to catch up to how fast Charlotte is annexing.
I was curious about this, so I looked online to check. Uptown Charlotte proper (within the 277 highway loop) doesn't have 25,000 people. At the time of the 2020 Census it had 16,000. What seems to have happened is that like a lot of cities, local groups are defining "Downtown" to mean "Greater Downtown" in a way that lets them pad numbers, meaning the built-up new apartment zones in the South End and other nearby areas are being included.
FWIW, Richmond did the same thing. Downtown defined as the core area bounded by 95, the James River, and Belvedere Street doesn't even have 9,000 people. So they're clearly lumping in adjacent neighborhoods like Shockoe Bottom, Shockoe Slip, Oregon Hill, Carver, etc. Both cities are making their downtowns bigger than they really are for promotional purposes. Hell, my city (Pittsburgh) does it too (lumping in North Shore, South Shore, Lower Hill, Uptown, and the Strip District even though they're not really part of Downtown).
Of course, the total population of the urban areas of Richmond is around 53,000 so, which blows Charlotte out of the water, for better or worse. No, it's not the hugest urban core, but it's larger in terms of numbers of residents than Savannah (which has less than 10,000 residents in its most urban neighborhoods) or Charlotte (which has about 20,000).
Of course, Charlotte growing faster and has much more high-density infill, so it will eventually catch up. But even though six-story apartment buildings with ground-floor commercial are a step up in terms of urban vitality, you'll never end up with a funky business district like Carver, packed wall-to-wall with small-scale commercial storefronts. Fine-grained urbanism like this is just hard to do with modern zoning requirements.
I was curious about this, so I looked online to check. Uptown Charlotte proper (within the 277 highway loop) doesn't have 25,000 people. At the time of the 2020 Census it had 16,000. What seems to have happened is that like a lot of cities, local groups are defining "Downtown" to mean "Greater Downtown" in a way that lets them pad numbers, meaning the built-up new apartment zones in the South End and other nearby areas are being included.
No... I posted the links with the individual stats.
No, I don't think Charlotte has a more urban build than Richmond. However, it's not nearly as much of a wash as some here are making it out to be. What kills Charlotte in this argument is the massive size of its suburban ring.
Last edited by Arcenal813; 12-17-2022 at 09:26 PM..
I was curious about this, so I looked online to check. Uptown Charlotte proper (within the 277 highway loop) doesn't have 25,000 people. At the time of the 2020 Census it had 16,000. What seems to have happened is that like a lot of cities, local groups are defining "Downtown" to mean "Greater Downtown" in a way that lets them pad numbers, meaning the built-up new apartment zones in the South End and other nearby areas are being included.
FWIW, Richmond did the same thing. Downtown defined as the core area bounded by 95, the James River, and Belvedere Street doesn't even have 9,000 people. So they're clearly lumping in adjacent neighborhoods like Shockoe Bottom, Shockoe Slip, Oregon Hill, Carver, etc. Both cities are making their downtowns bigger than they really are for promotional purposes. Hell, my city (Pittsburgh) does it too (lumping in North Shore, South Shore, Lower Hill, Uptown, and the Strip District even though they're not really part of Downtown).
Of course, the total population of the urban areas of Richmond is around 53,000 so, which blows Charlotte out of the water, for better or worse. No, it's not the hugest urban core, but it's larger in terms of numbers of residents than Savannah (which has less than 10,000 residents in its most urban neighborhoods) or Charlotte (which has about 20,000).
Of course, Charlotte growing faster and has much more high-density infill, so it will eventually catch up. But even though six-story apartment buildings with ground-floor commercial are a step up in terms of urban vitality, you'll never end up with a funky business district like Carver, packed wall-to-wall with small-scale commercial storefronts. Fine-grained urbanism like this is just hard to do with modern zoning requirements.
Uptown charlotte has noticeable vibrancy. I didn't see it in Richmond, but I won't say that it isn't there in Richmond.
No, I don't think Charlotte has a more urban build than Richmond. However, it's not nearly as much of a wash as some here are making it out to be. What kills Charlotte in this argument is the massive size of its suburban ring.
Per that report, all of center city is only 35,900 in a 2 mile radius (~12.5 sq. Miles) which gives center city charlotte a population density of 2,872 people per Sq. Mile.
So for population density we have
2 Mile Radius Charlotte = 2,900 people per sq mile
All of Richmond = 3,782 people per Sq. Mile
All of Charlotte = 2,800 people per sq. Mile
Downtown Richmond = 6,349 people per Sq mile https://venturerichmond.com/work-downtown/demographics/
Per that report, uptown has 18,300 which is less than Richmond’s 20,000+ downtown per This source https://venturerichmond.com/work-downtown/demographics/ says that and has a density of 6,349 people per Sq. Mile. I don’t know the accuracy of Richmond, but I feel for Charlotte it’s accurate (unless I did the math wrong in calculating the density of 35,900 people in a 2 mile radius.
The attached is what a 1/2/3 mile radius looks like. However center city partners defines center city as the 2 mile radius from the center.
Per that report, all of center city is only 35,900 in a 2 mile radius (~12.5 sq. Miles) which gives center city charlotte a population density of 2,872 people per Sq. Mile.
So for population density we have
2 Mile Radius Charlotte = 2,900 people per sq mile
All of Richmond = 3,782 people per Sq. Mile
All of Charlotte = 2,800 people per sq. Mile
Downtown Richmond = 6,349 people per Sq mile https://venturerichmond.com/work-downtown/demographics/
Per that report, uptown has 18,300 which is less than Richmond’s 20,000+ downtown per This source https://venturerichmond.com/work-downtown/demographics/ says that and has a density of 6,349 people per Sq. Mile. I don’t know the accuracy of Richmond, but I feel for Charlotte it’s accurate (unless I did the math wrong in calculating the density of 35,900 people in a 2 mile radius.
The attached is what a 1/2/3 mile radius looks like. However center city partners defines center city as the 2 mile radius from the center.
Sounds about right.
The density in Charlotte drops drastically outside of Uptown and Southend. Uptown and Southend represent pretty much the entirety of that 35,900 figure.
The density in Charlotte drops drastically outside of Uptown and Southend. Uptown and Southend represent pretty much the entirety of that 35,900 figure.
So virtually nobody hardly lives in NoDa, Plaza Midwood, Dilworth, Midtown, Optimist Park and the majority of the other neighborhoods within a 2-mile radius of the very center of downtown Charlotte?
2 Sq. Miles is too vast of an area that density doesn’t completely fall apart to below 3,000 people per sq. Mile? 2 mile radius of Charlotte is that less dense than the *entirety* of Richmond?
I’m pretty sure Richmond would be around 6,000 within a 2 mile radius of downtown.
And the further you go out of that 2 mile radius, the density only goes south.
In a city of hundreds of sq. Miles (Charlotte), It just doesn’t make sense to characterize that city by such a Small portion (it’s like… 33% of a 2-mile radius). I mean, even a 2-mile radius seems too small to really characterize the city by but even then, I think you’re saying 2 Sq. Miles is way too vast of an area to see the “real” urbanity of Charlotte.
So virtually nobody hardly lives in NoDa, Plaza Midwood, Dilworth, Midtown, Optimist Park and the majority of the other neighborhoods within a 2-mile radius of the very center of downtown Charlotte?
2 Sq. Miles is too vast of an area that density doesn’t completely fall apart to below 3,000 people per sq. Mile? 2 mile radius of Charlotte is that less dense than the *entirety* of Richmond?
I’m pretty sure Richmond would be around 6,000 within a 2 mile radius of downtown.
And the further you go out of that 2 mile radius, the density only goes south.
In a city of hundreds of sq. Miles (Charlotte), It just doesn’t make sense to characterize that city by such a Small portion (it’s like… 33% of a 2-mile radius). I mean, even a 2-mile radius seems too small to really characterize the city by but even then, I think you’re saying 2 Sq. Miles is way too vast of an area to see the “real” urbanity of Charlotte.
Well, if Uptown has 20,000 people, South End has 11,000, and the entire 2-mile radius outside of these two places only adds another ~5,000 people, that assessment sounds about right.
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