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One thing that makes people more raucous about Charlotte vs. Richmond in terms of urbanity and new vs. old is that Charlotte is a rapidly growing area and Richmond isn’t. That exacerbates the new vs. old perception because Charlotte is growing fast.
Charlotte is mostly low density urban sprawl. It’s pretty much illegal outside of a few tiny pockets of the city. Basically, like 3 Sq. Miles of the city (and as discussed earlier, the 2 mile radius is very low density and doesn’t have much urban growth outside of SouthEnd & uptown which is a small area of that 2 mile radius).
Yet Charlotte & the region is ballooning in population. Farm land turns into low density cul-de-sac etc. If Richmond were growing as fast as Charlotte, would the growth look different than Charlotte? Maybe.
There’s plenty of areas in the country that are having more urban development than Charlotte. I mean, Navy Yard, NoMa, Wharf in DC for example. Charlotte is adding more people than DC but DC city limits is adding nearly as much Multifamily in the city limits as all of Charlotte’s metropolitan area. Low income housing is built without parking, there are lots of subsidized units, etc etc. All shiny new things (yes you have those who say there is no “soul” but like another poster said, I like living in those modern buildings personally and I think people exaggerate that older = better). But I’d still characterize DC’s growth as very urban versus Charlotte’s as low density urban sprawl. Even Charlottes small dense growth in its downtown and SouthEnd still doesn’t have enough affordable units. Not really any public schools. Not really any families outside some rich folk in 4th ward.
To bring it back to Richmond, *if* it was a high growth city. If it has the corporate job growth of Charlotte. I’d be willing to bet that the growth of Richmond would be different looking than Charlotte’s. The vast land area of Charlotte alone gives Charlotte to plan which area to encourage growth in a controlled manner. Richmond doesn’t have that same vast space. I could see most Richmond’s city limit growth looking very urban. That’s just different from Charlottes cul-de-sac “River District (charlotte)” type growth.
And it’s all due to boring policies more than it has to do with whether a place is old or new. Plenty of places around the world are new and urban. And it’s very possible Charlotte balloons into such a larger metropolitan area that its urban nodes are collectively more of an impressive urban experience than Richmond but. That gets into preference etc.
One thing that makes people more raucous about Charlotte vs. Richmond in terms of urbanity and new vs. old is that Charlotte is a rapidly growing area and Richmond isn’t. That exacerbates the new vs. old perception because Charlotte is growing fast.
Charlotte is mostly low density urban sprawl. It’s pretty much illegal outside of a few tiny pockets of the city. Basically, like 3 Sq. Miles of the city (and as discussed earlier, the 2 mile radius is very low density and doesn’t have much urban growth outside of SouthEnd & uptown which is a small area of that 2 mile radius).
Yet Charlotte & the region is ballooning in population. Farm land turns into low density cul-de-sac etc. If Richmond were growing as fast as Charlotte, would the growth look different than Charlotte? Maybe.
There’s plenty of areas in the country that are having more urban development than Charlotte. I mean, Navy Yard, NoMa, Wharf in DC for example. Charlotte is adding more people than DC but DC city limits is adding nearly as much Multifamily in the city limits as all of Charlotte’s metropolitan area. Low income housing is built without parking, there are lots of subsidized units, etc etc. All shiny new things (yes you have those who say there is no “soul” but like another poster said, I like living in those modern buildings personally and I think people exaggerate that older = better). But I’d still characterize DC’s growth as very urban versus Charlotte’s as low density urban sprawl. Even Charlottes small dense growth in its downtown and SouthEnd still doesn’t have enough affordable units. Not really any public schools. Not really any families outside some rich folk in 4th ward.
To bring it back to Richmond, *if* it was a high growth city. If it has the corporate job growth of Charlotte. I’d be willing to bet that the growth of Richmond would be different looking than Charlotte’s. The vast land area of Charlotte alone gives Charlotte to plan which area to encourage growth in a controlled manner. Richmond doesn’t have that same vast space. I could see most Richmond’s city limit growth looking very urban. That’s just different from Charlottes cul-de-sac “River District (charlotte)” type growth.
And it’s all due to boring policies more than it has to do with whether a place is old or new. Plenty of places around the world are new and urban. And it’s very possible Charlotte balloons into such a larger metropolitan area that its urban nodes are collectively more of an impressive urban experience than Richmond but. That gets into preference etc.
Hey my friend. I think u are really selling Charlotte short in terms of urban infill and growth. I live on an urban family neighborhood. I think u should get out a d really explore the development inside alot of the neighborhoods.
You'd have to define "semi-urban." Are we talking about core + suburban areas, malls, etc? Because if that's the case, yes, Charlotte is a larger market, so its overall footprint of development is larger. And it's a larger urban area. But based on what's been presented in the thread, I would hesitate to say the city "trounces" Richmond in urban qualities/urbanity, core vs. core.
Again, there really isn't a universal consensus or agreed upon standard as to what urbanity is, but there is a majority viewpoint as to what traditional urbanity is. In that sense, I think it’s fine to say Richmond is more "urban" in some senses than Charlotte. But Richmond isn't as big and it isn't necessarily better. It might be for people who want that brand of urban, but for some, it’s not as desirable as some of the features a newer core or larger market like Charlotte offers.
When I lived in Ardmore, PA (outside Philly), to me, that felt urban. Parts had nearly Fan District (Richmond) level density, with rowhomes and shopping along Lancaster Avenue. But the first time I had a friend out to visit from South Philly, who had lived in Philly all his life, he said in seriousness, that he was glad to visit me out in the “country.” That’s when I realized my frame of reference was totally out of whack for what urban is for some. On the other end of the spectrum, wide multilane roads, sleek strip centers and malls can be urban for others. So it's relative.
Very well stated, my friend! I am from areas that are as urbun as you can find in this country. But I used to live in Charlotte for a few years and have been to and through Richmond to know that though it is traditionally more urban than Charlotte, I (and believe many others) prefer Charlotte's new urbanism, more modern, more dynamic in growth feel--which gives the anticipation of "greater things are coming" type of feel. Nothing against Richmond, it just overall felt too small of a city to me.
Not surprisingly, 50 years ago, Charlotte had 241k population. The same year, Richmond had 249k. 100 years ago, Charlotte at 46k and Richmond at 172k. Goes to show you, annexing land post WWII can send your population skyrocketing! Just ask Jacksonville! Goosing up population alone does not "urban feel" make.
Richmond is a small city compared to Charlotte, and I would choose Charlotte. However, Richmond has more structural density and urban historic neighborhoods. Richmond is really trying compared to some of its lackluster peers. Richmond suffers from its proximity to much larger regions and crime, unlike Charlotte who has no real competition with the exception of Raleigh for hundreds of miles. However, Richmond is definitely benefitting from those being priced out of D.C., and I could see the region positioning itself to attract more large companies. I don't think Amazon is through yet with Virginia.
Hey my friend. I think u are really selling Charlotte short in terms of urban infill and growth. I live on an urban family neighborhood. I think u should get out a d really explore the development inside alot of the neighborhoods.
Outside of uptown & SouthEnd, where are you talking about? There’s a few developments around NoDa & Plaza Midwood. Where should I explore?
Im not selling Charlotte short. I’m “selling” Charlotte for the reason people like it… Which happen to be cost of living, lower taxes, “business” friendly, less regulation, bigger houses, more land, more space, good schools, etc.
Outside of uptown & SouthEnd, where are you talking about? There’s a few developments around NoDa & Plaza Midwood. Where should I explore?
Im not selling Charlotte short. I’m “selling” Charlotte for the reason people like it… Which happen to be cost of living, lower taxes, “business” friendly, less regulation, bigger houses, more land, more space, good schools, etc.
I want you to think hard before you answer these questions. By far the most expensive apartment units in the city of Charlotte are the high-rise variety near the light rail. These expensive apartments continue to get rented out and the city continues to build more of these high-rise apartments from both local and out of state investors.
So here's my question. If everything that you stated above is true about Charlotte then why is all of this expensive high-rise apartment activity going on in Charlotte and not going on in Richmond? Also if everyone in Charlotte is just looking for the cheaper suburban option as you say how come there's people such as myself in Charlotte in which you could divide our incomes by three and we would still be six figure earners? And here's one more bonus question for you. Business friendly climates are excellent for people with a entrepreneurial Spirit such as myself; so are you implying that the entrepreneurial Spirit of Charlotte is greater than the entrepreneurial Spirit of Richmond? Could this entrepreneurial Spirit of Charlotte be the reason why we can afford million dollar homes in Dilworth and $5,000 a month apartments in the city core? I didn't want to go there but you opened up a big can of worms in your last post and you actually insulted Richmond in the process of trying to be condescending towards Charlotte. And I'll go one step further; how come the pride celebration in Charlotte is the largest pride celebration between Atlanta and DC; wouldn't that prize go to Richmond? Shouldn't that prize go to Richmond? Just saying....
Disclaimer: I brought up PRIDE because big houses land good schools is usually a subtle knock against "traditional family values". Charlotte is abundant with traditional family values and inclusiveness of all lifestyles so let's get that straight!!!
I want you to think hard before you answer these questions. By far the most expensive apartment units in the city of Charlotte are the high-rise variety near the light rail. These expensive apartments continue to get rented out and the city continues to build more of these high-rise apartments from both local and out of state investors.
So here's my question. If everything that you stated above is true about Charlotte then why is all of this expensive high-rise apartment activity going on in Charlotte and not going on in Richmond? Also if everyone in Charlotte is just looking for the cheaper suburban option as you say how come there's people such as myself in Charlotte in which you could divide our incomes by three and we would still be six figure earners? And here's one more bonus question for you. Business friendly climates are excellent for people with a entrepreneurial Spirit such as myself; so are you implying that the entrepreneurial Spirit of Charlotte is greater than the entrepreneurial Spirit of Richmond? Could this entrepreneurial Spirit of Charlotte be the reason why we can afford million dollar homes in Dilworth and $5,000 a month apartments in the city core? I didn't want to go there but you opened up a big can of worms in your last post and you actually insulted Richmond in the process of trying to be condescending towards Charlotte. And I'll go one step further; how come the pride celebration in Charlotte is the largest pride celebration between Atlanta and DC; wouldn't that prize go to Richmond? Shouldn't that prize go to Richmond? Just saying....
Disclaimer: I brought up PRIDE because big houses land good schools is usually a subtle knock against "traditional family values". Charlotte is abundant with traditional family values and inclusiveness of all lifestyles so let's get that straight!!!
Please don’t take it personal….
I believe this thread was about which city has more urban finesse. Charlotte has never came off as a culturally urban city ever. Charlotte is the poster child for suburban southern cities. It just is . Just think, Charlotte is a city 3 to 4 times the size of Richmond, but can’t touch this city in the thread’s poll. That says a lot, don’t you think?
We can argue all day about Charlotte having more economic drive than Richmond. It does. I think Charlotte is a better city to live in. It’s a city on the come up. However, it will be decades before Charlotte ever catches up to a city like Richmond urban culture wise.
I want you to think hard before you answer these questions. By far the most expensive apartment units in the city of Charlotte are the high-rise variety near the light rail. These expensive apartments continue to get rented out and the city continues to build more of these high-rise apartments from both local and out of state investors.
So here's my question. If everything that you stated above is true about Charlotte then why is all of this expensive high-rise apartment activity going on in Charlotte and not going on in Richmond? Also if everyone in Charlotte is just looking for the cheaper suburban option as you say how come there's people such as myself in Charlotte in which you could divide our incomes by three and we would still be six figure earners? And here's one more bonus question for you. Business friendly climates are excellent for people with a entrepreneurial Spirit such as myself; so are you implying that the entrepreneurial Spirit of Charlotte is greater than the entrepreneurial Spirit of Richmond? Could this entrepreneurial Spirit of Charlotte be the reason why we can afford million dollar homes in Dilworth and $5,000 a month apartments in the city core? I didn't want to go there but you opened up a big can of worms in your last post and you actually insulted Richmond in the process of trying to be condescending towards Charlotte. And I'll go one step further; how come the pride celebration in Charlotte is the largest pride celebration between Atlanta and DC; wouldn't that prize go to Richmond? Shouldn't that prize go to Richmond? Just saying....
Disclaimer: I brought up PRIDE because big houses land good schools is usually a subtle knock against "traditional family values". Charlotte is abundant with traditional family values and inclusiveness of all lifestyles so let's get that straight!!!
Why do Apartments command higher rents in SouthEnd/Uptown than elsewhere in the city? For the same reason everywhere else in the world this would be true. This is a universal thing not unique to Charlotte.
Why does Charlotte have the largest pride parade between Atlanta & DC? Because it’s a larger metropolitan area. Nothing to do with urbanity. Does Houston having a larger pride parade than Philadelphia or Boston mean Houston is more urban than those 2?
Why is high rise activity happening in Charlotte more than Richmond? It’s growing faster. Why is Raleigh adding more than Richmond? Because it’s more urban too?
I don’t think it’s slamming Richmond to say Charlottes economy is a little more hotter and higher growth than Richmond. I don’t think it shows entrepreneurial spirit - whatever that is - that North Carolina has scored some corporate relocations, etc. it is what it is. There’s a lot of talent there for certain jobs.
All the stuff you mentioned… I mean, it’s even applicable to why Raleigh is more urban than Richmond (a city more dense than Charlotte btw, has more Multifamily units U/C than Charlotte (per Berkadia) and the city is just as dense as center city Charlotte).
Raleigh is adding more people than Richmond.
Raleigh has a hotter economy than Richmond.
Raleigh has more high rise development than Richmond
Raleigh commands high premiums for apartments in center city too.
Raleigh has a larger pride parade than Richmond.
Raleigh has a professional sports team, Richmond doesn’t
You think Raleigh & Charlotte are more urban than Richmond. That’s your opinion and I can see that won’t change. I think those cities and more typical sunbelt, urban sprawl, high growth fueled by lower cost of living, business-friendly climates, lower taxes, lower regulations, etc.
If Richmond were growing rapidly, I think it would be more dense growth than Charlottes growth. I mean. Charlotte still has a model such as hugeee swaths of empty land that it bulldozes and makes the new it area. For example, the “River District”. You’re not going to have that growth as an option in Richmond. If Charlotte wants more sustainable growth, more urban growth and less sprawl. 1.) the NC state laws need to change. Because they banned a lot of power the cities has to regulate the growth (2.) there needs to be a lot more subsidies in Multifamily housing (3.) massive zoning changes (even more than what was just passed and isn’t even law yet I don’t think) and taxes need to be raised to support infrastructure upgrades. Places like Wilmore and Dilworth need to add hundreds of people with Multifamily projects going up all throughout those neighborhoods. But right now. It’s mostly illegal. Those neighborhoods would also fight it.
Why do Apartments command higher rents in SouthEnd/Uptown than elsewhere in the city? For the same reason everywhere else in the world this would be true. This is a universal thing not unique to Charlotte.
Why does Charlotte have the largest pride parade between Atlanta & DC? Because it’s a larger metropolitan area. Nothing to do with urbanity. Does Houston having a larger pride parade than Philadelphia or Boston mean Houston is more urban than those 2?
Why is high rise activity happening in Charlotte more than Richmond? It’s growing faster. Why is Raleigh adding more than Richmond? Because it’s more urban too?
I don’t think it’s slamming Richmond to say Charlottes economy is a little more hotter and higher growth than Richmond. I don’t think it shows entrepreneurial spirit - whatever that is - that North Carolina has scored some corporate relocations, etc. it is what it is. There’s a lot of talent there for certain jobs.
All the stuff you mentioned… I mean, it’s even applicable to why Raleigh is more urban than Richmond (a city more dense than Charlotte btw, has more Multifamily units U/C than Charlotte (per Berkadia) and the city is just as dense as center city Charlotte).
Raleigh is adding more people than Richmond.
Raleigh has a hotter economy than Richmond.
Raleigh has more high rise development than Richmond
Raleigh commands high premiums for apartments in center city too.
Raleigh has a larger pride parade than Richmond.
Raleigh has a professional sports team, Richmond doesn’t
You think Raleigh & Charlotte are more urban than Richmond. That’s your opinion and I can see that won’t change. I think those cities and more typical sunbelt, urban sprawl, high growth fueled by lower cost of living, business-friendly climates, lower taxes, lower regulations, etc.
If Richmond were growing rapidly, I think it would be more dense growth than Charlottes growth. I mean. Charlotte still has a model such as hugeee swaths of empty land that it bulldozes and makes the new it area. For example, the “River District”. You’re not going to have that growth as an option in Richmond. If Charlotte wants more sustainable growth, more urban growth and less sprawl. 1.) the NC state laws need to change. Because they banned a lot of power the cities has to regulate the growth (2.) there needs to be a lot more subsidies in Multifamily housing (3.) massive zoning changes (even more than what was just passed and isn’t even law yet I don’t think) and taxes need to be raised to support infrastructure upgrades. Places like Wilmore and Dilworth need to add hundreds of people with Multifamily projects going up all throughout those neighborhoods. But right now. It’s mostly illegal. Those neighborhoods would also fight it.
I do believe that single family only zoning in Charlotte has been overturned along with Minneapolis if that's the illegal practices that you continue to speak of.
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