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Some of the number does seems low...add another $20k at least...
But yes, for let say NYC it's definitely way more than Manhattan (or LI City / Hoboken / Jersey City or even Brooklyn). Not everything cost $5000/mo...
Baltimore MSA number also doesn't quite add up...it HIGHLY depends on which part of the MSA you're talking about anyway. Howard County is not that much cheaper than MoCo (in DC MSA) and AA County (at least the nicer part) or Carroll County are also more expensive than one think. Part of BalCo (i.e. Towson) isn't exactly cheap either. Sure, east BalCo is cheaper but who wants to live there?
Haters from afar going off of assumptions and popular stereotypes
People who reside there and want to make where they live seem more exclusive/unattainable than it actually is, i.e. "2000 gets you a broom closet around here, etc."
Is it just me, or do people almost always START with the most exclusive parts of these huge metro areas for their examples of "everything" being too expensive?
bingo. We have to also keep in mind that people here usually are White/Asian and work in tech lol. That's like the most privledged 0.01% of the population LMAO. Of course they will balk at 5 figure (even some 6 figure) incomes. A lot of people have lifestyle creep. As they make more money they upgrade their life style accordingly. Buying some new cars, maybe a Benz... getting that new apartment in the neighborhood you HAVE to live in. When you are making 350k, you ask yourself how does anybody do it on 100k??? But then the average New Yorker who is making 65k a year is asking 'How can I ever live off of 100k?'. This is of course all subjective and depends on your lifestyle.
Like sure.. you can't live in the West Village or UWS off this.. duh? But you can go live in East New York.. try Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx. UES has some good deals. Want suburbs? Bayonne, Jersey City, SE Bergen County, etc.... You go further out and theres some more places under 2k.
you can live around NYC in an apartment for 1500-2000 a month. thats doable.
Now, if you want to act like a gentrifier and eat in the West Village every night.. well, then you are in a different bucket. Most New Yorkers live off of and do fine within the 75k-99k range. Especially POC.
Agree.
People are just ridiculous pay 20-25k in rent. In NYC especially get a monthly pass for whatever it cost. That’s 127 a month or, 1500.
Then you have 48-58k to spend elsewhere as a single person. If you can’t be comfortable off that you’ve got lifestyle creep.
I recently had to fix this because I completely omitted Massachusetts for some reason so I fixed it and I think it shows the lengths families need to go to in order to have some semblance of 'comfort'---yes you can survive on much less, but actual comfort means you need to earn a little(or some times a lot) more.
City, State, Median Income, 2-Earner Families, 2021(MSA): Pop 65,000+ Bethesda, MD $250,000+(Washington)
Dublin, CA $250,000+(San Francisco)
Mountain View, CA $250,000+(San Jose)
Newton, MA $250,000+(Boston)
Palo Alto, CA $250,000+(San Jose)
Newport Beach, CA $248,622(Los Angeles)
Fremont, CA $245,994(San Francisco)
Sunnyvale, CA $240,997(San Jose)
San Ramon, CA $235,951(San Francisco)
Redwood City, CA $233,391(San Francisco)
Santa Clara, CA $228,644(San Jose)
San Francisco, CA $225,209(San Francisco)
Arlington, VA $217,128(Washington)
Berkeley, CA $215,139(San Francisco)
Pleasanton, CA $214,380(San Francisco)
San Mateo, CA $213,306(San Francisco)
Milpitas, CA $211,074(San Jose)
Washington, DC $210,935(Washington)
Seattle, WA $209,584(Seattle)
Santa Monica, CA $206,028(Los Angeles)
Davis, CA $203,589(Sacramento)
Naperville, IL $200,763(Chicago)
Livermore, CA $197,772(San Francisco)
Alameda, CA $195,078(San Francisco)
Walnut Creek, CA $192,438(San Francisco)
Alpharetta, GA $191,488(Atlanta)
Johns Creek, CA $190,644(Atlanta)
Folsom, CA $190,425(Sacramento)
Thousand Oaks, CA $188,462(Oxnard)
Carmel, IN $186,769(Indianapolis)
Highlands Ranch, CO $186,266(Denver)
San Jose, CA $187,105(San Jose)
Redondo Beach, CA $186,052(Los Angeles)
Cambridge, MA $185,083(Boston)
Mission Viejo, CA $183,384(Los Angeles)
Somerville, MA $182,532(Boston)
Alexandria, VA $180,851(Washington)
Carlsbad, CA $180,139(San Diego)
Castro Valley, CA $179,453(San Francisco)
Evanston, IL $178,662(Chicago)
Yorba Linda, CA $178,496(Los Angeles)
Irvine, CA $174,196(Los Angeles)
Lake Forest, CA $173,909(Los Angeles)
Pasadena, CA $173,380(Los Angeles)
Chino Hills, CA $169,211(Riverside)
Centennial, CO $163,696(Denver)
Union City, CA $163,058(San Francisco)
Sandy Springs, GA $163,008(Atlanta)
Roseville, CA $162,963(Sacramento)
Boulder, CO $162,011(Boulder)
Stamford, CT $160,169(Bridgeport)
Huntington Beach, CA $158,421(Los Angeles)
Fishers, IN $157,663(Indianapolis)
San Marcos, CA $156,507(San Diego)
Atlanta, GA $154,796(Atlanta)
Columbia, MD $154,206(Baltimore)
Oakland, CA $154,164(San Francisco)
Torrance, CA $154,111(Los Angeles)
Norwalk, CT $153,946(Bridgeport)
Arlington Heights, IL $151,778(Chicago)
Tustin, CA $151,679(Los Angeles)
Broomfield, CO $151,017(Denver)
Scottsdale, AZ $150,737(Phoenix)
Here is a list of just the largest cities:
Largest Cities by Median Income, Two-Earner Families, 2021:
San Francisco, CA $225,209
Washington, DC $210,935
Seattle, WA $209,584
San Jose, CA $187,105
Atlanta, GA $154,796
Oakland, CA $154,164
Austin, TX $148,172
Portland, OR $136,785
Denver, CO $136,463
San Diego, CA $135,250
Minneapolis, MN $128,211
Chicago, IL $125,139
Boston, MA $123,063
Raleigh, NC $120,420
Charlotte, NC $117,751
Tampa, FL $115,930
New Orleans, LA $114,297
Sacramento, CA $113,028
Virginia Beach, CA $112,876
Albuquerque, NM $112,871
Colorado Springs, CO $111,887
New York, NY $111,374
Long Beach, CA $110,675
Baltimore, MD $108,168
Los Angeles, CA $107,376
Fort Worth, TX $107,145
Nashville, TN $103,460
Kansas City, MO $101,544
Philadelphia, PA $101,490
Phoenix, AZ $99,164
Dallas, TX $98,194
Mesa, AZ $97,851
Indianapolis, IN $96,477
Louisville, KY $96,159
Jacksonville, FL $95,185
Las Vegas, NV $94,890
Oklahoma City, OK $94,445
Fresno, CA $92,472
Columbus, OH $92,103
Houston, TX $91,117
San Antonio, TX $85,713
Memphis, TN $84,433
Milwaukee, WI $81,537
Miami, FL $78,978
Tucson, AZ $77,366
El Paso, TX $75,708
Detroit, MI $70,590
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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No, it seems low to me, at $77,634 for the Seattle area. Living comfortable to me means able to buy a small house or condo,
eat well, and have some savings, which is not possible on that low income. In fact here that is about the income to be considered qualified for public assistance.
The median household income here is $181,464, and even in the city of Seattle it's $97.185. At $77,634 using the 1/3 income rule, monthly expense for housing would be limited to about $2,154, while average rent in Seattle is $2,324.
I have 5 employees in the $70-85k range and all of them have a working partner or roommate to help with the rent on their Seattle apartments.
No, it seems low to me, at $77,634 for the Seattle area. Living comfortable to me means able to buy a small house or condo,
eat well, and have some savings, which is not possible on that low income. In fact here that is about the income to be considered qualified for public assistance.
The median household income here is $181,464, and even in the city of Seattle it's $97.185. At $77,634 using the 1/3 income rule, monthly expense for housing would be limited to about $2,154, while average rent in Seattle is $2,324.
I have 5 employees in the $70-85k range and all of them have a working partner or roommate to help with the rent on their Seattle apartments.
You're delusional. You have to make $150k+ to afford that.
And $35k in Denver is laughable. Who the is saving $14k a year?!
Basically eating a bowl of white rice a day I guess. Everyone needs to either downgrade their lifestyle or city. As I've said, markets like Indy and Pittsburgh will have amenities that would make 95% of us happy.
I recently had to fix this because I completely omitted Massachusetts for some reason so I fixed it and I think it shows the lengths families need to go to in order to have some semblance of 'comfort'---yes you can survive on much less, but actual comfort means you need to earn a little(or some times a lot) more.
City, State, Median Income, 2-Earner Families, 2021(MSA): Pop 65,000+ Bethesda, MD $250,000+(Washington)
Dublin, CA $250,000+(San Francisco)
Mountain View, CA $250,000+(San Jose)
Newton, MA $250,000+(Boston)
Palo Alto, CA $250,000+(San Jose)
Newport Beach, CA $248,622(Los Angeles)
Fremont, CA $245,994(San Francisco)
Sunnyvale, CA $240,997(San Jose)
San Ramon, CA $235,951(San Francisco)
Redwood City, CA $233,391(San Francisco)
Santa Clara, CA $228,644(San Jose)
San Francisco, CA $225,209(San Francisco)
Arlington, VA $217,128(Washington)
Berkeley, CA $215,139(San Francisco)
Pleasanton, CA $214,380(San Francisco)
San Mateo, CA $213,306(San Francisco)
Milpitas, CA $211,074(San Jose)
Washington, DC $210,935(Washington)
Seattle, WA $209,584(Seattle)
Santa Monica, CA $206,028(Los Angeles)
Davis, CA $203,589(Sacramento)
Naperville, IL $200,763(Chicago)
Livermore, CA $197,772(San Francisco)
Alameda, CA $195,078(San Francisco)
Walnut Creek, CA $192,438(San Francisco)
Alpharetta, GA $191,488(Atlanta)
Johns Creek, CA $190,644(Atlanta)
Folsom, CA $190,425(Sacramento)
Thousand Oaks, CA $188,462(Oxnard)
Carmel, IN $186,769(Indianapolis)
Highlands Ranch, CO $186,266(Denver)
San Jose, CA $187,105(San Jose)
Redondo Beach, CA $186,052(Los Angeles)
Cambridge, MA $185,083(Boston)
Mission Viejo, CA $183,384(Los Angeles)
Somerville, MA $182,532(Boston)
Alexandria, VA $180,851(Washington)
Carlsbad, CA $180,139(San Diego)
Castro Valley, CA $179,453(San Francisco)
Evanston, IL $178,662(Chicago)
Yorba Linda, CA $178,496(Los Angeles)
Irvine, CA $174,196(Los Angeles)
Lake Forest, CA $173,909(Los Angeles)
Pasadena, CA $173,380(Los Angeles)
Chino Hills, CA $169,211(Riverside)
Centennial, CO $163,696(Denver)
Union City, CA $163,058(San Francisco)
Sandy Springs, GA $163,008(Atlanta)
Roseville, CA $162,963(Sacramento)
Boulder, CO $162,011(Boulder)
Stamford, CT $160,169(Bridgeport)
Huntington Beach, CA $158,421(Los Angeles)
Fishers, IN $157,663(Indianapolis)
San Marcos, CA $156,507(San Diego)
Atlanta, GA $154,796(Atlanta)
Columbia, MD $154,206(Baltimore)
Oakland, CA $154,164(San Francisco)
Torrance, CA $154,111(Los Angeles)
Norwalk, CT $153,946(Bridgeport)
Arlington Heights, IL $151,778(Chicago)
Tustin, CA $151,679(Los Angeles)
Broomfield, CO $151,017(Denver)
Scottsdale, AZ $150,737(Phoenix)
Here is a list of just the largest cities:
Largest Cities by Median Income, Two-Earner Families, 2021:
San Francisco, CA $225,209
Washington, DC $210,935
Seattle, WA $209,584
San Jose, CA $187,105
Atlanta, GA $154,796
Oakland, CA $154,164
Austin, TX $148,172
Portland, OR $136,785
Denver, CO $136,463
San Diego, CA $135,250
Minneapolis, MN $128,211
Chicago, IL $125,139
Boston, MA $123,063
Raleigh, NC $120,420
Charlotte, NC $117,751
Tampa, FL $115,930
New Orleans, LA $114,297
Sacramento, CA $113,028
Virginia Beach, CA $112,876
Albuquerque, NM $112,871
Colorado Springs, CO $111,887
New York, NY $111,374
Long Beach, CA $110,675
Baltimore, MD $108,168
Los Angeles, CA $107,376
Fort Worth, TX $107,145
Nashville, TN $103,460
Kansas City, MO $101,544
Philadelphia, PA $101,490
Phoenix, AZ $99,164
Dallas, TX $98,194
Mesa, AZ $97,851
Indianapolis, IN $96,477
Louisville, KY $96,159
Jacksonville, FL $95,185
Las Vegas, NV $94,890
Oklahoma City, OK $94,445
Fresno, CA $92,472
Columbus, OH $92,103
Houston, TX $91,117
San Antonio, TX $85,713
Memphis, TN $84,433
Milwaukee, WI $81,537
Miami, FL $78,978
Tucson, AZ $77,366
El Paso, TX $75,708
Detroit, MI $70,590
Austin is 57k ahead of Houston! Atlanta is way higher than I thought as well.
Not even close. The notion that you can live comfortably on a 5 figure income in NYC or SF is patently ridiculous. Perhaps the writer has a very low bar for what constitutes "comfortable".
I largely agree with this take. This thread will be unproductive because everyone has their own idea of what it means to live comfortably.
For me, that answer would depend on many different things. For one, my standard of living expectations changed dramatically as I got older. "Comfortable" at 21 was being packed into a single room in a roach motel with friends. And I would have been fine flying in the middle seat of row 32 on the cheapest discount airline that had 3 connections on the way to my final destination. "Comfortable" today is my own room in nothing less than a 4-star hotel with airline status making anything less than Comfort Plus completely unacceptable.
So "comfortable" is not some objective thing, IMO. If you have a family and want to live in a good school district and take trips to Disney World once a year, then 85K might not cut it in any major metro area. If you're right out of college, you're probably living like royalty.
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