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Just looking at average incomes in Dallas and Tarrant Counties for men in the 30-34 age group (full-time workers).
Professional degree - $188,137
Doctorate degree - $109,909
Master's degree - $105,608
Bachelor's degree - $80,212
Some college, less than 1 yr - $53,329
1 or more yrs of college - $48,062
HS diploma - $43,631
GED - $41,061
Average for all men - $62,218
So few high earning families live in Boston. I really think it's that simple.
I can't speak to DC, but Seattle has loads of SFH residential areas popular for families. Chicago has even more. I mean, nearly the entire northwest side of Chicago is quiet, residential, SFH.
In Boston, most of the high earning families, single or dual income, don't live in the city. Right? They live in Cambridge, and Newton, and Brookline, and Belmont, and Arlington, and Milton. Places like Brighton, West Roxbury, Roslindale, JP have some... But, it's few and far between. There really just aren't a lot of SFH neighborhoods in general, relative to many other cities. And let's call it, that's what a lot of families want or get if they can afford to do so.
There's an interesting dynamic there that is probably 4 levels deeper. But it's the reason the median incomes higher/salaries are higher than most of the country, while the family incomes within the cities limits are not.
Yea I would agree. But the difference between DC and Bosotn is so huge. I guess DC does have some more SFH areas. Boston schools are as good if not better than DC (but getting worse) so you’d think they’d attract similar types of families. But they don’t, but it’s strange the demographics of the kids are both heavily minority and low income….
Most of the SFH area in Boston despite the absolutely outrageous price tags don’t really house high income families. I just thought there was enough in JP West Roxbury and (western) Roslindale. I’m not really familiar with the social dynamics and make up of Boston northern neighborhoods but I assumed they had families in Charlestown and Brighton.
Increasingly, Boston just seems socially unstable.. whereas 20 years ago it seemed so unchanging and unassuming.
Gas for fully-owned older model vehicle ($200) - $853
Car insurance ($67) - $786
Groceries ($300) - $486
Not a whole lot left over for "fun." Need to either get a cheaper place in a less nice part of town, get roommates, or save less money. I wouldn't consider any of those "comfortable" options.
Most people are choosing roommates and saving less money. I moved to Atlanta on a whim and needed to live alone in a safe community, so I am saving less. My car insurance is double that figure, my groceries are around $400, my gas is around $80 for the month, I don't have student loans, and my rent is $600 less, and $90k would be approximately doubling my income. I imagine Dallas and Atlanta are close enough in COL if anything Dallas being more expensive than Atlanta maybe? Missing expenses include laundry since I could not afford $1600+ for an apartment with in-unit laundry, and that's an additional $50+/month expense. I live in one of Atlanta's nicest communities, East Cobb, where the median income is around $120-130k. I had to go $100/month over the "recommended" for rent at my income and also further out from the city to get an apartment not in an industrial area or a place not roach-infested. I am surviving but if I had to go to the hospital, my savings would get chewed out and I just recovered from such an event. I am definitely below my savings goals, I have no choice in order to get by. My commute is an hour each way because I could not afford to move closer without being too close (I work in the warehousing district near ATL which has high crime).
My last roommate was great and we still talk even though she moved back home to Philly. But I love living alone more... it's definitely hard for people starting out or don't have a good support system from family. I am fortunate that if the worst of the worst happened to me, I could go back to my family, but that's the last thing I want to do. Life should not require dual income just to literally get by... this is why domestic violence is so high people trapped in abusive relationships because they can't get their own place and so forth. I once had roommates literally destroy my clothes while it was in the laundry because they were so unbalanced back in college and I had assigned roommates through my university's program. And I had to pay hundreds to break that lease and move to a different apartment.
There needs to be a serious correction in RENTS and/or WAGES. One needs to go up significantly (wages) or go down significantly (rent), or both of those actions simultaneously (ideally). There will be riots and eventually a revolution if it doesn't happen. They say that history repeats itself... French Revolution 2.0 I suppose. Americans got angrier over paying tax on tea than they do with the highway robbery going on for basic shelter and groceries these days.
So few high earning families live in Boston. I really think it's that simple.
I can't speak to DC, but Seattle has loads of SFH residential areas popular for families. Chicago has even more. I mean, nearly the entire northwest side of Chicago is quiet, residential, SFH.
In Boston, most of the high earning families, single or dual income, don't live in the city. Right? They live in Cambridge, and Newton, and Brookline, and Belmont, and Arlington, and Milton. Places like Brighton, West Roxbury, Roslindale, JP have some... But, it's few and far between. There really just aren't a lot of SFH neighborhoods in general, relative to many other cities. And let's call it, that's what a lot of families want or get if they can afford to do so.
There's an interesting dynamic there that is probably 4 levels deeper. But it's the reason the median incomes higher/salaries are higher than most of the country, while the family incomes within the cities limits are not.
I also think Boston’s universities have a huge about of Grad/Med students which often are married or otherwise in dual income households.
But yes, Chicago in particular is so high because it has large swaths of basically suburban Watertown/Newton/Cambridge neighborhoods that bring up the average. (While that explains Boston, not LA/NYC)
I also wonder if Chicago is higher because lower income Americans are more likely to be in single income (parent) households than poor immigrants. So on the lower end of things you might have more dual income low income families.
New York and LA are more foreign than Boston which is less likely to be caught in dysfunction as Americans of similar economic status.
Last edited by btownboss4; 03-10-2023 at 03:55 PM..
I also think Boston’s universities have a huge about of Grad/Med students which often are married or otherwise in dual income households.
But yes, Chicago in particular is so high because it has large swaths of basically suburban Watertown/Newton/Cambridge neighborhoods that bring up the average. (While that explains Boston, not LA/NYC)
I also wonder if Chicago is higher because lower income Americans are more likely to be in single income (parent) households than poor immigrants. So on the lower end of things you might have more dual income low income families.
New York and LA are more foreign than Boston which is less likely to be caught in dysfunction as Americans of similar economic status.
Families with kids in Bosotn make 77k per year. In Chicago is 72k. In DC its 135k. IN NYC its 69k in Seattle its 198k.
Households without kids in DC make 138k in Seattle its 150k. IN Boston its 103k. In NYC its 81k in Chicago its 87
The hypothetical DINK Grad studnets make way more than families in Boston. The inverse is true everywhere else except NYC, wher the difference is slightly less.
Fact of the matter is most families in Boston are low income. and making less than whats "comfortable"
Families with kids in Bosotn make 77k per year. In Chicago is 72k. In DC its 135k. IN NYC its 69k in Seattle its 198k.
Households without kids in DC make 138k in Seattle its 150k. IN Boston its 103k. In NYC its 81k in Chicago its 87
The hypothetical DINK Grad studnets make way more than families in Boston. The inverse is true everywhere else except NYC, wher the difference is slightly less.
Fact of the matter is most families in Boston are low income. and making less than whats "comfortable"
Grad students themselves often are lower income (or at least well below $135,000) because they lack proper jobs. But like College students their income doesn’t align with their social class. I think that’s a smaller factor the rest of the post I think explains the delta. Because look what you just did, when you disaggregate the data, it makes more sense.
DC>Boston>NYC>Chicago in incomes.
But I think the high propensity of Immigrant families means far more low income households have dual incomes in Boston/Ny/LA than more American DC/Chicago exaggerating the difference. Same reason those cities are much more violent than Boston/NY/LA. Cause they have fewer poor immigrants more poor Americans
Coupled with like DC’s Brookline (NE DC) being in city limits and such. And Chicago (and Seattle to some extent) having huge swaths of middle class suburban neighborhoods which don’t exist in large numbers Boston city proper
Last edited by btownboss4; 03-10-2023 at 05:45 PM..
To say there is no such thing as difference in cost of living is absolutely absurd to me. I tend to find its mostly just people who live in big cities and are apologists for the city and style of life they love. Yes, you can find crazy expensive places to live in low COL cities but comparing a place like Highland Park in Dallas or Buckhead in Atlanta to all of the Bay or NYC is ridiculous. Youd need to measure how expensive it is to live in Buckhead vs. Tribeca or Presidio Heights. Comparing those neighborhoods to Flatbush or Oakland is a horribly bad argument.
Yes.
To be fair; this is C-D vacuum type thing. In "the real world" most people aren't as outwardly chest-thumpy about things like this. Whether they live in a HCOL or LCOL area.
It is an absolute fact that there are significant COL differences in various locations of the US (and certainly on a micro-level as well; within specific states/metros/cities). It is also a fact that the COL to income-earning potential ratio is not NEARLY as linear as many folks on C-D like to believe/proclaim.
None of this means that small-space-dwellers/renters in HCOL areas are "suckers".....nor does it mean that homeowners/larger-space-dwellers in lower COL areas "settle for mediocrity"....despite those being the constant bickering point-counterpoints on C-D. lol
I’m going to assume living comfortably is owning a moderate size home in a decently safe neighborhood, married with two kids and 2 average cars. Little debt. You’re able to save a little and take at least one vacation a year. With that said, HELL NO! These numbers are way off! 68k in metro Dallas will get you qualified for a one bedroom apartment in Plano lol! By the time you pay student loan, yolks, food, gas, car payment and insurance, you might have enough left to have two drinks at a bar while your trying to figure out if you will ever get to a point where your not living paycheck to paycheck lol!
DC is way off. The incomes are among the highest in America, but the cost to rent or buy a house is way less than San Fran, Boston, NYC, LA etc.
The link says after taxes. That's around 100K in the DMV without accounting for pre-tax deductions. If you plan to have health benefits and a fully-funded 401(k), you would need to gross around 120K.
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