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I’ll start with the skier’s analysis since mountains is #1.
The Green Mountains in Vermont get the most snowfall and it increases dramatically as you go north. Jay Peak averages 355”. Stowe and Smuggs around 300”. Sugarbush and Mad River 250”. Killington has declined to around 225”. Okemo maybe 200”. The microclimate is upslope lift of relatively moist air from the west where it cools and comes down as snow east of the peaks.
New Hampshire sits in the rain shadow of the Greens. Other than the Presidential range which has no lift serviced skiing, nothing in New Hampshire sees 200” of snow. The ski areas are very intermediate because they pre-date snowmaking and you couldn’t open anything steep very often on natural snow. In Maine, Sugarloaf stands alone and has that same upslope lifting microclimate and gets 200” of snow. Sunday River to the south barely averages 125” and couldn’t survive without snowmaking. Most of the mountain was established after 1985 so it’s steeper knowing it could rely on snowmaking.
In New York State, Whiteface at Lake Placid is the only real game in town. It’s the only mountain in the northeast big enough to hold an Olympic downhill event. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get great natural snow.
Given the criteria and biasing it toward skiing, Burlington and Chittenden County is the clear winner. I’ve sailed on Lake Champlain. In the fall, you can look up to the east and see early snow on the top of Mount Mansfield. With the former IBM chip plant now owned by GlobalFoundries, the colleges & medical school, health care, and the other companies located there, it has 21st century jobs. A half hour out of Burlington is quite rural with New England villages.
A friend of mine was a Vice President at Sunday River and had his 30’ sailboat on the Royal River. He lived in the outskirts of Portland and commuted to the ski resort. Portland is the commercial center for Maine. That’s the other obvious choice in New England for mountain access and you also have ocean access.
With the reality of needing a job, Albany is a consideration. I was at Killington for 30+ years and I knew tons of Albany people. I lived in Portsmouth NH for a decade. The nearest hiking with 1000’ of vertical is an hour away around Gunstock. I used to hike around there frequently. Sunday River is 2 hours with a radar detector. I drove to Killington every weekend. The Southern New Hampshire border towns are in the Boston metro and are an hour and a half from Loon/Waterville Valley. You can have a metro Boston job and be easy day trip distance from skiing.
I’ll start with the skier’s analysis since mountains is #1.
The Green Mountains in Vermont get the most snowfall and it increases dramatically as you go north. Jay Peak averages 355”. Stowe and Smuggs around 300”. Sugarbush and Mad River 250”. Killington has declined to around 225”. Okemo maybe 200”. The microclimate is upslope lift of relatively moist air from the west where it cools and comes down as snow east of the peaks.
New Hampshire sits in the rain shadow of the Greens. Other than the Presidential range which has no lift serviced skiing, nothing in New Hampshire sees 200” of snow. The ski areas are very intermediate because they pre-date snowmaking and you couldn’t open anything steep very often on natural snow. In Maine, Sugarloaf stands alone and has that same upslope lifting microclimate and gets 200” of snow. Sunday River to the south barely averages 125” and couldn’t survive without snowmaking. Most of the mountain was established after 1985 so it’s steeper knowing it could rely on snowmaking.
In New York State, Whiteface at Lake Placid is the only real game in town. It’s the only mountain in the northeast big enough to hold an Olympic downhill event. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get great natural snow.
Given the criteria and biasing it toward skiing, Burlington and Chittenden County is the clear winner. I’ve sailed on Lake Champlain. In the fall, you can look up to the east and see early snow on the top of Mount Mansfield. With the former IBM chip plant now owned by GlobalFoundries, the colleges & medical school, health care, and the other companies located there, it has 21st century jobs. A half hour out of Burlington is quite rural with New England villages.
A friend of mine was a Vice President at Sunday River and had his 30’ sailboat on the Royal River. He lived in the outskirts of Portland and commuted to the ski resort. Portland is the commercial center for Maine. That’s the other obvious choice in New England for mountain access and you also have ocean access.
With the reality of needing a job, Albany is a consideration. I was at Killington for 30+ years and I knew tons of Albany people. I lived in Portsmouth NH for a decade. The nearest hiking with 1000’ of vertical is an hour away around Gunstock. I used to hike around there frequently. Sunday River is 2 hours with a radar detector. I drove to Killington every weekend. The Southern New Hampshire border towns are in the Boston metro and are an hour and a half from Loon/Waterville Valley. You can have a metro Boston job and be easy day trip distance from skiing.
The bolded sentence is something to consider not only for southern Vermont, but for Western MA as well. Both are quite close and get much of their media from the Albany area, which by the way has a Global Foundries facility in Malta in Saratoga County. IBM and Global Foundries are in the Poughkeepsie area as well.
I’ll start with the skier’s analysis since mountains is #1.
The Green Mountains in Vermont get the most snowfall and it increases dramatically as you go north. Jay Peak averages 355”. Stowe and Smuggs around 300”. Sugarbush and Mad River 250”. Killington has declined to around 225”. Okemo maybe 200”. The microclimate is upslope lift of relatively moist air from the west where it cools and comes down as snow east of the peaks.
New Hampshire sits in the rain shadow of the Greens. Other than the Presidential range which has no lift serviced skiing, nothing in New Hampshire sees 200” of snow. The ski areas are very intermediate because they pre-date snowmaking and you couldn’t open anything steep very often on natural snow. In Maine, Sugarloaf stands alone and has that same upslope lifting microclimate and gets 200” of snow. Sunday River to the south barely averages 125” and couldn’t survive without snowmaking. Most of the mountain was established after 1985 so it’s steeper knowing it could rely on snowmaking.
In New York State, Whiteface at Lake Placid is the only real game in town. It’s the only mountain in the northeast big enough to hold an Olympic downhill event. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get great natural snow.
Given the criteria and biasing it toward skiing, Burlington and Chittenden County is the clear winner. I’ve sailed on Lake Champlain. In the fall, you can look up to the east and see early snow on the top of Mount Mansfield. With the former IBM chip plant now owned by GlobalFoundries, the colleges & medical school, health care, and the other companies located there, it has 21st century jobs. A half hour out of Burlington is quite rural with New England villages.
A friend of mine was a Vice President at Sunday River and had his 30’ sailboat on the Royal River. He lived in the outskirts of Portland and commuted to the ski resort. Portland is the commercial center for Maine. That’s the other obvious choice in New England for mountain access and you also have ocean access.
With the reality of needing a job, Albany is a consideration. I was at Killington for 30+ years and I knew tons of Albany people. I lived in Portsmouth NH for a decade. The nearest hiking with 1000’ of vertical is an hour away around Gunstock. I used to hike around there frequently. Sunday River is 2 hours with a radar detector. I drove to Killington every weekend. The Southern New Hampshire border towns are in the Boston metro and are an hour and a half from Loon/Waterville Valley. You can have a metro Boston job and be easy day trip distance from skiing.
Hiking by far is the best in New Hampshire. The density of 4500+ Foot mountains puts it far and away the best in The northeast with large alpine zones.
So for 4 season recreation? New Hampshire wins mountains
Plus at this point Manchester/Salem etc have some good paying jobs, you can like like 45 minutes from Loon
As for Whiteface, it still averages 158 inches of snowfall.
Right. And the signature expert terrain at the top of Whiteface called The Slides is pretty much never open. The Northern Vermont ski resorts get double the snow. 158 means you rely on snowmaking and you're skiing rock-hard machine groomed terrain most of the time. I'm just giving you the skier's view.
The economic reality for most people who want mountain access is Albany or the northern edge of the Boston 'burbs. When I was telecommuting out of Killington for a bunch of years in the winter, I could get to Manchester NH airport or Albany airport in 2 hours. I could make Logan Airport in 2h 40 minutes. For a big slice of my work career, I spent winter Sunday nights at my Vermont place and drove to the office on Monday morning. Most places I worked were north of Boston and a 2 1/2-ish hour drive. No problem making a 9am meeting.
Hiking by far is the best in New Hampshire. The density of 4500+ Foot mountains puts it far and away the best in The northeast with large alpine zones.
So for 4 season recreation? New Hampshire wins mountains
Plus at this point Manchester/Salem etc have some good paying jobs, you can like like 45 minutes from Loon
As you can see, while NH has the top 5, NY also has its share of 4500 foot mountains as well and ME has 2 above that height. 17 of the 35 4500+ foot mountains in the Northeast are in the Adirondacks of NY. So, while NH does have the top 5, NY actually has more mountains at or above that minimum height(NH has 16).
This doesn't get into smaller "mountains" like the Catskills, Taconics, the Enchanteds, Helderbergs, etc. or hilly areas in NY. Same in terms of waterfalls: https://nyfalls.com/waterfalls/map/
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-28-2023 at 08:48 AM..
Hiking by far is the best in New Hampshire. The density of 4500+ Foot mountains puts it far and away the best in The northeast with large alpine zones.
So for 4 season recreation? New Hampshire wins mountains
Plus at this point Manchester/Salem etc have some good paying jobs, you can like like 45 minutes from Loon
White Mountain National Forest functions like a national park-- tremendous hiking infrastructure that includes the AMC's huts and lodges and trail maintenance, a scenic drive (the Kancamagus) as popular as drives in national parks, famed attractions like the flume. Nothing in NYS that concentrates tourism and visitor amenities and recreational opportunities quite the way the White Mountains do. As Geoff and others point out the Whites and other ranges in Maine and Vermont are accessible from a number of cities very desirable among the privileged white collar set. NYS is right up there on 'traditional towns with walkable cores" -- there are so many. OTOH, New York doesn't have the same local governance of New England towns. Plenty of lakes in New York and lots of them are completely public with camping areas operated by the DEC. I don't know any lake as beautiful as Squam Lake but it's all private property, like many others in New Hampshire and Maine. Not sure what OP means by 'culture'-- diversity or things like opera, orchestras, museums. Either way, hard to beat NYS.
As you can see, while NH has the top 5, NY also has its share of 4500 foot mountains as well and ME has 2 above that height. 17 of the 35 4500+ foot mountains in the Northeast are in the Adirondacks of NY. So, while NH does have the top 5, NY actually has more mountains at or above that minimum height(NH has 16).
This doesn't get into smaller "mountains" like the Catskills, Taconics, the Enchanteds, Helderbergs, etc. or hilly areas in NY. Same in terms of waterfalls: https://nyfalls.com/waterfalls/map/
The difference is the Adirondack high peaks are less concentrated. Wildcat to Moosilauke is like 40 miles.
So like I said, New York has the most of everything but NH being it’s size you have the most access from the average spot in the state (say Manchester or Lebanon or Rochester or Berlin)
But for someone in like Elmira or Rochester or Middletown the Adirondack’s are not a day trip
The difference is the Adirondack high peaks are less concentrated. Wildcat to Moosilauke is like 40 miles.
So like I said, New York has the most of everything but NH being it’s size you have the most access from the average spot in the state (say Manchester or Lebanon or Rochester or Berlin)
But for someone in like Elmira or Rochester or Middletown the Adirondack’s are not a day trip
Even with that, you have the Catskills(and even the Poconos of PA) for those in the Southern Tier and Hudson Valley like Elmira and Middletown are respectively. Ellicottville is only a couple of hours from Elmira down Route 17/I-86.
For Rochester, you could actually get to a place in the Adirondacks like Old Forge in less than 3 hours. However, a person from Rochester is more likely to go to say Ellicottville in the Enchanted Mountains(or even smaller Bristol Mountain) instead for skiing.
Also, someone from Albany/Schenectady/Troy, Saratoga Springs or even Syracuse and Utica can easily make it to the Adirondacks for a day trip. Let alone someone that lives in Plattsburgh that could go to the Adirondacks and the Green Mountains of Vermont, with Montreal only being an hour away and Burlington across Lake Champlain via this ferry: https://ferries.com/ (and Plattsburgh is pretty affordable).
Speaking of the Catskills, here is a cool article about the diverse range of people that come to ski at Hunter Mountain, the only 4000+ mountain in that group: https://www.timesunion.com/hudsonval...s-16755384.php
So, that kind of combines some of the other criteria the OP mentioned in his/her list and could be another example of what makes Upstate NY a little bit unique from the other choices.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-28-2023 at 09:29 AM..
Even with that, you have the Catskills(and even the Poconos of PA) for those in the Southern Tier and Hudson Valley like Elmira and Middletown are respectively.
For Rochester, you could actually get to a place in the Adirondacks like Old Forge in less than 3 hours. However, a person from Rochester is more likely to go to say Ellicottville in the Enchanted Mountains(or even smaller Bristol Mountain) instead for skiing.
Also, someone from Albany/Schenectady/Troy, Saratoga Springs or even Syracuse and Utica can easily make it to the Adirondacks for a day trip. Let alone someone that lives in Plattsburgh that could go to the Adirondacks and the Green Mountains of Vermont, with Montreal only being an hour away and Burlington across Lake Champlain via this ferry: https://ferries.com/ (and Plattsburgh is pretty affordable).
From Rochester to Lake Placid is 5.5 hours. From Portsmouth to Mt Washington trailheads? 2hrs.
Manchester to Mt Lafayette? Is under and hour and a half
From Rochester to Lake Placid is 5.5 hours. From Portsmouth to Mt Washington trailheads? 2hrs.
Manchester to Mt Lafayette? Is under and hour and a half
Ok, but the criteria is about access, not necessarily access to the highest or most well known mountain.
Rochester to Ellicottville, with its 2 ski areas is under 2 hours.
I could switch this to say Albany and Hunter Mountain is a slightly over an hour, with Whiteface and Killington in VT a little over 2 hours. Plus, the Capital Region is essentially NH in population and land size.
So, this is why I mentioned that you could break Upstate NY down into regions and many of them will be similar to the other regions/states listed in New England.
On a side note, I'm kind of surprised that Western MA isn't getting mentioned more in this thread given its proximity to areas just outside of the region like Hartford and Albany for employment options for some and to mountains in VT and NH. Let alone Springfield and the college towns in the region.
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