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NH might or dare I say only wins due to proximity to Boston. Plus, it may make sense, as it may have one of the higher cost of living out the 4 or at least in terms of where most of the people in the state live. If we go by regions of NY, the Hudson Valley has commuter rail access into NYC and may allow it to precede NH because of that.
In terms of access, this is where the breaking down Upstate NY into regions, as I’d say that the Capital Region of NY has a similar access to mountains due to being in between the Adirondacks and Catskills. It is close to smaller mountains like the Taconics and Berkshires, with the Green Mountains also within a couple of hours. So, there may have to be an asterisk even with mountain access and this isn’t even considering Vermont, which also is close to the White Mountains and the Adirondacks.
I think the Atlantic Ocean access is fair and true. However, 2 Great Lakes, the Finger Lakes, Oneida Lake, Lake Champlain, Lake George, many other lakes in the Adirondacks, Chautauqua Lake and many others may make it closer than realized. Again, if you go by a region, WNY due to the Great Lakes, Finger Lakes and Chautauqua Lake likely is in the lead for NY.
I’ll go back to Western MA, but I’m still surprised that people aren’t at least mentioning places like Northampton, Amherst or East Longmeadow as places that would appeal to a good number of people.
Yes but everything is so far apart. You either choose the Finger Lakes or the Adirondack’s of living in a large job center (Rockland, Putnam etc)
NH for example is about the size of Adirondack Park. But has 10x the population. People actually live near the stuff. That’s broadly not true in NYS. So It has better access.
You choose Lake Erie or the Adirondacks you pick the Catskills or the Thousand Islands . They’re really far from each other.
On 4th of July Weekend if you live in Manchester NH (the states largest city) you can very easily go to the beach on Saturday, Hike a 4000fter on Sunday and go to the lake on Monday. And sleep in you bed in between. And do it on an ~hour or less one way trip. In Oneonta NY? You can’t do any of that within an hour.
Yes but everything is so far apart. You either choose the Finger Lakes or the Adirondack’s of living in a large job center (Rockland, Putnam etc)
NH for example is about the size of Adirondack Park. But has 10x the population. People actually live near the stuff. That’s broadly not true in NYS. So It has better access.
You choose Lake Erie or the Adirondacks you pick the Catskills or the Thousand Islands . They’re really far from each other.
On 4th of July Weekend if you live in Manchester NH (the states largest city) you can very easily go to the beach on Saturday, Hike a 4000fter on Sunday and go to the lake on Monday. And sleep in you bed in between. And do it on an ~hour or less one way trip. In Oneonta NY? You can’t do any of that within an hour.
A better way to view NH when looking at NY regions in a more relative comparison is the Central NY(Syracuse/Utica-Rome areas) or the Capital Region(Albany) due to land size and population.
So, say with CNY, you can still go to Sylvan Beach and then go to Old Forge. In fact, both are actually in the Utica-Rome MSA. You could also go to Lake Ontario or the Finger Lakes within the CNY Region. For instance, I gave a very in depth breakdown just for CNY for each of the criteria and more.
With the Capital Region, besides the mountains, you can go to Lake George or Great Sacandaga Lake. Plus, you have multiple legitimately urban cities and smaller communities like Ballston Spa, Scotia, Delmar, Catskills, etc. that you can check out, as well. Lake George has this beach too: https://www.lakegeorge.com/business/...ar-beach-8740/
Even with WNY, depending on how you break it down, it can include Buffalo and Rochester.
So, even if you break Upstate NY down into regions, they will have something relative to each of the criteria.
Just to bite, for Oneonta, it is at the Foothills of the Catskills. So, Hunter Mountain is slightly over an hour. Cooperstown is only a 30 minute drive and is on Otsego Lake, which has this state park: https://parks.ny.gov/parks/glimmerglass/details.aspx So, a trip to Otsego Lake offers a 2 in 1 in terms of the Lake and beach. So, even Oneonta, which has 2 colleges, an orchestra, multiple performing arts venues and a nice, quaint community nearby with its museums/Glimmerglass Festival; can make it work.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-28-2023 at 07:13 PM..
A better way to view NH when looking at NY regions in a more relative comparison is the Central NY(Syracuse/Utica-Rome areas) or the Capital Region(Albany) due to land size and population.
So, say with CNY, you can still go to Sylvan Beach and then go to Old Forge. In fact, both are actually in the Utica-Rome MSA. You could also go to Lake Ontario or the Finger Lakes within the CNY Region. For instance, I gave a very in depth breakdown just for CNY for each of the criteria and more.
With the Capital Region, besides the mountains, you can go to Lake George or Great Sacandaga Lake. Plus, you have multiple legitimately urban cities and smaller communities like Ballston Spa, Scotia, Delmar, Catskills, etc. that you can check out, as well. Lake George has this beach too: https://www.lakegeorge.com/business/...ar-beach-8740/
Even with WNY, depending on how you break it down, it can include Buffalo and Rochester.
So, even if you break Upstate NY down into regions, they will have something relative to each of the criteria.
Just to bite, for Oneonta, it is at the Foothills of the Catskills. So, Hunter Mountain is slightly over an hour. Cooperstown is only a 30 minute drive and is on Otsego Lake, which has this state park: https://parks.ny.gov/parks/glimmerglass/details.aspx So, a trip to Otsego Lake offers a 2 in 1 in terms of the Lake and beach. So, even Oneonta, which has 2 colleges, an orchestra, multiple performing arts venues and a nice, quaint community nearby with its museums/Glimmerglass Festival; can make it work.
The quality/quantity of stuff is way lower within in hour of a random NYS town. Again, NH has 48 4000 footers in like 1250 sq miles. Being very generous basically all of NH’s attractions fall within about 6500sq miles. And unlike New York, people live in those areas. Concord alone has 1/3rd of the population of the entire Adirondacks It’s very compact
Manchester is closer to *all* the NH 4000 footers as the crow flies than Albany is to *any* of the Adirondack 4000 footers.
There is a reason people from New York go all the way to NH but people from New England rarely go to Upstate
That makes a huge difference
Last edited by btownboss4; 03-28-2023 at 07:32 PM..
The quality/quantity of stuff is way lower within in hour of a random NYS town. Again, NH has 48 4000 footers in like 1000 sq miles.
Manchester is closer to *all* the NH 4000 footers as the crow flies than Albany is to *any* of the Adirondack 4000 footers.
There is a reason people from New York go all the way to NH but people from New England rarely go to Upstate
That makes a huge difference
It depends on the town and you are getting stuck on 4000 foot mountains. Besides, Manchester as a metro has less people than Onondaga County(Syracuse) in population. So, it is about half the metro population of the Albany area.
Oneonta was random, but you can still get to a 4000 foot mountain in a little over an hour, Cooperstown may beat out any quaint small town(key word) in NH and there is a lake with a beach. If anything, that may help Upstate NY, because even a lesser known place can have those things within close proximity.
It depends on the town and you are getting stuck on 4000 foot mountains. Besides, Manchester as a metro has less people than Onondaga County(Syracuse) in population. So, it is about half the metro population of the Albany area.
Oneonta was random, but you can still get to a 4000 foot mountain in a little over an hour, Cooperstown may beat out any quaint small town(key word) in NH and there is a lake with a beach. If anything, that may help Upstate NY, because even a lesser known place can have those things within close proximity.
Manchester (and Portsmouth) are also closer to every 4000 footer than Syracuse is to any Adirondack high peak (not going to do driving distances)
Also the reason I use 4000 footers is every Northeastern state has an easy list of 4000 footers available. Not so with vaguely seen as “big mountains” (Eg Mt Manadnock or Greylock)
If you going to take credit for everything from Plattsburgh to Dunkirk you kind of need to own up to the idea that you take huge access dings for those things being 330 miles from each other.
Also I’d like to Point out New Hampshire literally has more area above the Treeline than all other Eastern states combined
Last edited by btownboss4; 03-28-2023 at 08:11 PM..
Manchester (and Portsmouth) are also closer to every 4000 footer than Syracuse is to any Adirondack high peak (not going to do driving distances)
Also the reason I use 4000 footers is every Northeastern state has an easy list of 4000 footers available. Not so with vaguely seen as “big mountains” (Eg Mt Manadnock or Greylock)
If you going to take credit for everything from Plattsburgh to Dunkirk you kind of need to own up to the idea that you take huge access dings for those things being 330 miles from each other.
In terms of the first part, that is nice, but what about the other stuff? Syracuse would be the biggest city in NH and those NH cities may not even offer as much in terms of amenities. The fact remains that mountains are still within a reasonable distance of many Upstate NY cities, including Syracuse. Syracuse can at least give you an opera, orchestra, ballet, 2 professional theaters, museums, the NY State Fair, Division 1/ACC and Patriot League athletics, high level minor league Hockey and Baseball, NY State’s largest shopping center, a world renown college institution, a legitimately diverse ethnic population, wineries, apple orchards, lakes, quaint relatively upscale communities, legitimate nightlife districts, plenty of parks, an amphitheater with concerts, etc. within minutes. It isn’t perfect by any means, but you can do worse.
With Dunkirk, it is on Lake Erie and has its own beach. They may not have access to high peaks, but it has quaint communities nearby and Ellicottville is about an hour away. It also has this unique institution about 35 minutes away on Chautauqua Lake: https://www.chq.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chautauqua_Institution
Buffalo is only 45-50 minutes away and if you are into pro football, it is only 40 minutes from Highmark Stadium.
Both of those smaller areas have state colleges either in town(Plattsburgh) or in the adjacent community(Dunkirk in terms of Fredonia State).
So, this is what I’m referring to with the other criteria and how even random, smaller Upstate NY places may have amenities within close proximity.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-28-2023 at 08:34 PM..
Yes but everything is so far apart. You either choose the Finger Lakes or the Adirondack’s of living in a large job center (Rockland, Putnam etc)
NH for example is about the size of Adirondack Park. But has 10x the population. People actually live near the stuff. That’s broadly not true in NYS. So It has better access.
You choose Lake Erie or the Adirondacks you pick the Catskills or the Thousand Islands . They’re really far from each other.
On 4th of July Weekend if you live in Manchester NH (the states largest city) you can very easily go to the beach on Saturday, Hike a 4000fter on Sunday and go to the lake on Monday. And sleep in you bed in between. And do it on an ~hour or less one way trip. In Oneonta NY? You can’t do any of that within an hour.
I basically agree than functionally most locations in NH offer a better mix of lakes and mountains than much of Upstate NY which is a vast area. However, places like Saratoga offer proximity to lakes and mountains and a walkable cute town with culture. The Hudson Valley offers scenic outdoor access and and proximity to NYC which blows away any cultural offerings near NH. So it really depends on how much weight you put on each factor.
I basically agree than functionally most locations in NH offer a better mix of lakes and mountains than much of Upstate NY which is a vast area. However, places like Saratoga offer proximity to lakes and mountains and a walkable cute town with culture. The Hudson Valley offers scenic outdoor access and and proximity to NYC which blows away any cultural offerings near NH. So it really depends on how much weight you put on each factor.
Not sure if that better than towns like Meredith or Laconia. Which are also, close to Boston but during the summer have plenty of cultural amenities. (As well as a 1500 ft ski hill basically in Laconia)
And again, the distance is much smaller. You’re taking 90 minutes to Boston vs 3hrs to NYC
But I agree the area north of Albany is about a complete a package as you get in NYS.
Like if you live in Laconia you can literally wake up at 8am, ski at Gunstock open til close, hop in your car and go to the 7om Bruins game, and be home by midnight.
If you live in Saratoga springs to go to a ski area over 1000 ft vertical. You need to drive an hour to Gore. And if you ski all day you can’t get to NYC until 8pm with no traffic. You aren’t going to a knicks game.
Last edited by btownboss4; 03-28-2023 at 08:28 PM..
Not sure if that better than towns like Meredith or Laconia. Which are also, close to Boston but during the summer have plenty of cultural amenities. (As well as a 1500 ft ski hill basically in Laconia)
And again, the distance is much smaller. You’re taking 90 minutes to Boston vs 3hrs to NYC
But I agree the area north of Albany is about a complete a package as you get in NYS.
Like if you live in Laconia you can literally wake up at 8am, ski at Gunstock open til close, hop in your car and go to the 7om Bruins game, and be home by midnight.
If you live in Saratoga springs to go to a ski area over 1000 ft vertical. You need to drive an hour to Gore. And if you ski all day you can’t get to NYC until 8pm with no traffic. You aren’t going to a knicks game.
But if you live in say Kingston or New Paltz, you can do Hunter Mountain and then head to NYC. Poughkeepsie is only a little over an hour from Hunter and you can take a train into NYC. Beacon a little south of Poughkeepsie is similar and offers an artsy scene. So, the Hudson Valley offers a similar flexibility, with a public transportation option into NYC.
What Saratoga Springs would offer is what jpdivola mentioned is its own culture between the Horse Racing, upscale atmosphere, nightlife, SPAC, etc. So, for its size(only has about 25,000 people), it offers quite a bit.
Even going back to Plattsburgh, with it being only about an hour from Montreal, you can go watch the Habs play in terms of Hockey or if you are into the CFL/Football, watch the Alouettes as well. Not only are you close to high peaks, you might want to do this instead just south of the city: https://www.ausablechasm.com/ So, a lot of this depends on where you are in Upstate NY.
Yeah, plus as much as I like Boston. NYC blows the doors off compared to Boston when it comes to culture. Being 90 min from NYC vs 90 min from Boston is like being 90 min from the Rockies vs the Poconos. A lot comes down to how you prioritize the various factors.
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