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My favorite Vermont vs New Hampshire flame was a Boston Globe editorial by Mike Barnicle written ages ago. He called New Hampshire “Arkansas with snow”. I had it in one of my office boxes for a bunch of years. Someone put it up on the web so I tossed my copy.
LOL Barnicle cracks me up. I never really knew how "rednecky" New Hampshire was until I started coming on this board. I mean I went on a family ski trip once in the late 80's to Waterville Valley, nice spot. But that was literally the extent of my NH knowledge.
Although I do remember a friend in college from the Boston area who used to tell me about what he termed in New England "Northern rednecks" and sounds like this is NH to a tee.
Got it...What about the Springfield portion of Western MA, given that it would be the biggest area out of the New England selections? It seems like it is an area that gets maligned by those from the region in this forum, but what redeeming qualities does the area have that could appeal to anything the OP mentioned?
This thread is about mountain towns, or at least living somewhere with easy access to mountain towns. I-91 in Massachusetts is 56 miles. Springfield is around 50 miles from the Vermont line. I guess the closest Vermont mountain town with the New England green and the white church would be Newfane. That’s almost 90 minutes from Springfield. I’ve lived around there both north in Northampton and south in Connecticut. Jobs was a criteria and Springfield is challenged for jobs. My wife had some staff in one of the hospitals there. Other than healthcare, there aren’t many high paying jobs. It’s flyover country economy. Public sector. Education. Health care. There’s one small insurance company as the dominant private sector employer with most insurance jobs in Hartford and a huge trend to relocate back office functions to lower labor cost parts of the country. There’s just not much economic opportunity in Springfield.
In a thread about mountain towns, I think of resort towns. Stowe. Woodstock. Waitsfield/Warren. West Dover. North Conway. Bethel ME. Carrabassett Valley ME. Lake Placid. In my mind, Stowe kind of wins if you can afford it. Burlington is 50 minutes with the university, medical school & teaching hospital, retail, regional airport, and the former IBM chip plant with all the tech jobs. Lake Champlain. My only concern is that AIG sold the ski resort to Vail after 70 years of deep pockets ownership and the cheap Epic Pass has probably destroyed the upscale experience on the mountain.
This thread is about mountain towns, or at least living somewhere with easy access to mountain towns. I-91 in Massachusetts is 56 miles. Springfield is around 50 miles from the Vermont line. I guess the closest Vermont mountain town with the New England green and the white church would be Newfane. That’s almost 90 minutes from Springfield. I’ve lived around there both north in Northampton and south in Connecticut. Jobs was a criteria and Springfield is challenged for jobs. My wife had some staff in one of the hospitals there. Other than healthcare, there aren’t many high paying jobs. It’s flyover country economy. Public sector. Education. Health care. There’s one small insurance company as the dominant private sector employer with most insurance jobs in Hartford and a huge trend to relocate back office functions to lower labor cost parts of the country. There’s just not much economic opportunity in Springfield.
In a thread about mountain towns, I think of resort towns. Stowe. Woodstock. Waitsfield/Warren. West Dover. North Conway. Bethel ME. Carrabassett Valley ME. Lake Placid. In my mind, Stowe kind of wins if you can afford it. Burlington is 50 minutes with the university, medical school & teaching hospital, retail, regional airport, and the former IBM chip plant with all the tech jobs. Lake Champlain. My only concern is that AIG sold the ski resort to Vail after 70 years of deep pockets ownership and the cheap Epic Pass has probably destroyed the upscale experience on the mountain.
The original post is below...
I thought that this would be a fun comparison...And for the purposes of this thread, upstate NY will start north of the NYC msa. Western Mass will be everything west of Worcester County to the NY border.
Let's compare the aforementioned states using the following criteria:
1. Access to mountains
2. Access to hiking
3. Access to to traditional small towns with walkable cores.
4. Access to culture
5. Access to outdoor motorsports (motorbikes, snowmobiles, etc)
6. Friendliest people
7. Access to lakes
8. Access to jobs
9. What else have I forgotten?
I think that is there may be some confusion, as the OP doesn't state that the thread is about mountain towns.
With that said, it looks like Springfield isn't viewed in a good light.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-30-2023 at 10:51 AM..
Overall, the landscape of Upstate NY is more pastoral than the landscape of Northern New England, especially ME and NH, due to a greater abundance of cleared fields and farmland in Upstate NY. East of I-91, the land is more densely forested. Therefore, the vistas in this area are shorter and, IMO, less impressive.
Another major advantage of Upstate NY is the fact that it is located in, well, NY. When Upstate NY was settled and developed, NY was the most populous state in the country (and continued to be for the next 150 years). As a result, Upstate NY has more "services" than any of the Northern New England states, including freeways and highways. Even in the remotest areas of Upstate NY, I still feel as if those places are better "connected" to civilization, for lack of a better term.
Lastly, the look and feel of Upstate NY vary quite significantly, depending on hamlet/village. When you're in New England, you know that you're in New England - town layouts, architectural styles, etc. are all fairly distinct and uniform throughout the region. OTOH, Upstate NY communities may range in look/feel from New England to PA to OH to MI, depending on where you are located in the state, which makes the state (as a whole) more culturally and architecturally interesting than ME, NH and VT.
Overall, the landscape of Upstate NY is more pastoral than the landscape of Northern New England, especially ME and NH, due to a greater abundance of cleared fields and farmland in Upstate NY. East of I-91, the land is more densely forested. Therefore, the vistas in this area are shorter and, IMO, less impressive.
Another major advantage of Upstate NY is the fact that it is located in, well, NY. When Upstate NY was settled and developed, NY was the most populous state in the country (and continued to be for the next 150 years). As a result, Upstate NY has more "services" than any of the Northern New England states, including freeways and highways. Even in the remotest areas of Upstate NY, I still feel as if those places are better "connected" to civilization, for lack of a better term.
Lastly, the look and feel of Upstate NY vary quite significantly, depending on hamlet/village. When you're in New England, you know that you're in New England - town layouts, architectural styles, etc. are all fairly distinct and uniform throughout the region. OTOH, Upstate NY communities may range in look/feel from New England to PA to OH to MI, depending on where you are located in the state, which makes the state (as a whole) more culturally and architecturally interesting than ME, NH and VT.
Good points here…A lot of people may not realize that cities such as Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany were top 50 cities in population for a good portion of their histories, with other Upstate NY cities being up there for a good length of time as well. So, there is a legacy of services/amenities that go back decades/centuries. Many of these cities have multiple colleges/universities that help maintain or contribute to these amenities as well.
Good points here…A lot of people may not realize that cities such as Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany were top 50 cities in population for a good portion of their histories, with other Upstate NY cities being up there for a good length of time as well. So, there is a legacy of services/amenities that go back decades/centuries. Many of these cities have multiple colleges/universities that help maintain or contribute to these amenities as well.
As I recently mentioned in another thread, there is a big difference in look and feel of Upstate NY east of SR 30. In my opinion, Upstate NY looks older and feels more colonial in character east of SR 30. Unfortunately, I have found that many of the small towns in Eastern NY are somewhat neglected and rundown, assuming that wealthy city folk flock to and invest their money in the New England states where income, property and sales tax rates are generally lower. If you are interested in settling down in Eastern NY, then you might be better off living in New England because I feel that, overall, CT, VT and Western MA do a better job of preserving and upkeeping their small towns than Eastern NY, save a few tony towns (e.g., Bedford, Essex, Hudson, Millbrook, Woodstock, etc.). However, west of SR 30, the built environment of exurban and rural NY seems nicer and better maintained overall, probably because it is newer.
As I recently mentioned in another thread, there is a big difference in look and feel of Upstate NY east of SR 30. In my opinion, Upstate NY looks older and feels more colonial in character east of SR 30. Unfortunately, I have found that many of the small towns in Eastern NY are somewhat neglected and rundown, assuming that wealthy city folk flock to and invest their money in the New England states where income, property and sales tax rates are generally lower. If you are interested in settling down in Eastern NY, then you might be better off living in New England because I feel that, overall, CT, VT and Western MA do a better job of preserving and upkeeping their small towns than Eastern NY, save a few tony towns (e.g., Bedford, Essex, Hudson, Millbrook, Woodstock, etc.). However, west of SR 30, the built environment of exurban and rural NY seems nicer and better maintained overall, probably because it is newer.
I frequent the Whites, Adirondacks, and Catskills often - both in winter and summer. Here are my takes:
Winter, Adirondacks is king. Lake Placid is a lovely lively town with a lot of amenities and fun winter activities not just limited to skiing. Granted the Whites also offer plenty, but none of the towns are remotely comparable to LP. Yes yes, Iceface, I know, it is is what it is. But WF also offers similar vertical to say Aspen, so from a height and steepness lense, it is an excellent mountain.
Summer, it is a draw between the ADKs and Whites. NH has the higher and more dramatic mountains, with a lot more alpine terrain hiking - which is awesome - but the ADKs have a more rustic, isolated, and ultimately pristine/peaceful/serene vibe. Much less developed than the Whites, less infrastructure and roads, more nature and wilderness, and a lot more paddling opportunities. And the High Peak region is no slouch when it comes to dramatic mountains - the Great Range traverse for example is a lot more rugged and challenging that the Presidential traverse, despite being overall lower in altitude. But all in, the Whites have a lot of cool things to do as well, that do not exist in the ADKs (nothing to my knowledge as cool as Diana's Baths in NY for example, and the covered bridges, and cog railway etc have their charm as well.)
Overall, slight nudge to the ADKs here.
Now the Catskills! They are, cute! Good for a quick jaunt from NYC to scratch that hiking itch. Can get dramatic at the highest peaks (Hunter, Slide both over 4K); The Catskill escarpment trail provides dramatic views for miles, and can be quite disorienting as the Catskill escarpment rises up almost vertically up to 4K feet from the valley below which is at sea level. This gives a real wow factor that can rival both the ADKs and Whites (as the base of the latter' mountains are already at an altitude when the mountains start to rise, rather than near sea level).
Lots of cool interesting towns and history and culture in the region as well. Combine with the near by Shawgunks and Hudson Valley, and you have a really cool area with a ton of history, cool small towns, and more than decent hiking and out door activities.
Someone compared the Catskills with the Berkshires, but the former is much larger and overall has many more peaks higher than those found in the Berkshires.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-01-2023 at 05:11 PM..
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