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I frequent the Whites, Adirondacks, and Catskills often - both in winter and summer. Here are my takes:
Winter, Adirondacks is king. Lake Placid is a lovely lively town with a lot of amenities and fun winter activities not just limited to skiing. Granted the Whites also offer plenty, but none of the towns are remotely comparable to LP. Yes yes, Iceface, I know, it is is what it is. But WF also offers similar vertical to say Aspen, so from a height and steepness lense, it is an excellent mountain.
Summer, it is a draw between the ADKs and Whites. NH has the higher and more dramatic mountains, with a lot more alpine terrain hiking - which is awesome - but the ADKs have a more rustic, isolated, and ultimately pristine/peaceful/serene vibe. Much less developed than the Whites, less infrastructure and roads, more nature and wilderness, and a lot more paddling opportunities. And the High Peak region is no slouch when it comes to dramatic mountains - the Great Range traverse for example is a lot more rugged and challenging that the Presidential traverse, despite being overall lower in altitude. But all in, the Whites have a lot of cool things to do as well, that do not exist in the ADKs (nothing to my knowledge as cool as Diana's Baths in NY for example, and the covered bridges, and cog railway etc have their charm as well.)
Overall, slight nudge to the ADKs here.
Now the Catskills! They are, cute! Good for a quick jaunt from NYC to scratch that hiking itch. Can get dramatic at the highest peaks (Hunter, Slide both over 4K); The Catskill escarpment trail provides dramatic views for miles, and can be quite disorienting as the Catskill escarpment rises up almost vertically up to 4K feet from the valley below which is at sea level. This gives a real wow factor that can rival both the ADKs and Whites (as the base of the latter' mountains are already at an altitude when the mountains start to rise, rather than near sea level).
Lots of cool interesting towns and history and culture in the region as well. Combine with the near by Shawgunks and Hudson Valley, and you have a really cool area with a ton of history, cool small towns, and more than decent hiking and out door activities.
Someone compared the Catskills with the Berkshires, but the former is much larger and overall has many more peaks higher than those found in the Berkshires.
My two pence.
ta.
The thing is it isn’t “what area is the best. Which is debatable it’s which area provides the best access. And for NH all the people live near these things. While New Yorkers live far away from the Adirondacks.
The population center of New Hampshire is Pembroke. That is an hour from White Mountains national forest
Manchester is closer to all the 4000 footers in NH than Albany or Syracuse is to any of the New York ones. Let alone, Binghamton, Rochester, Kingston, etc.
The Adirondacks reserve is about the size of NH and has 130,000 people. NH has almost 1.4 million.
A drive to Whiteface from Lake Placid is about the same as Concord to Loon, Waterville or Cannon.
The difference is NYS is huge and NH is not. However if you’re an outdoorsman trying to peakbag the Adk might be harder cause one think that makes them more difficult isn’t the actual terrain but the fact that there are much longer runouts where you’re hiking 4 or 5 miles before you really go up. While a lot of the Whites are trailheads right at the base. However I think the climb in the Whites is somewhat harder
Last edited by btownboss4; 04-01-2023 at 05:33 PM..
The thing is it isn’t “what area is the best. Which is debatable it’s which area provides the best access. And for NH all the people live near these things. While New Yorkers live far away from the Adirondacks.
The population center of New Hampshire is Pembroke. That is an hour from White Mountains national forest
Manchester is closer to all the 4000 footers in NH than Albany or Syracuse is to any of the New York ones. Let alone, Binghamton, Rochester, Kingston, etc.
The Adirondacks reserve is about the size of NH and has 130,000 people. NH has almost 1.4 million.
A drive to Whiteface from Lake Placid is about the same as Concord to Loon, Waterville or Cannon.
The difference is NYS is huge and NH is not. However if you’re an outdoorsman trying to peakbag the Adk might be harder cause one think that makes them more difficult isn’t the actual terrain but the fact that there are much longer runouts where you’re hiking 4 or 5 miles before you really go up. While a lot of the Whites are trailheads right at the base. However I think the climb in the Whites is somewhat harder
That actually isn't exactly true, as I mentioned earlier, Kingston is within minutes of the Catskills, which actually have 2 4000 foot mountains. Albany is actually closer to the second highest peak in the Adirondacks, which is next to the first highest(Mount Marcy): https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Alba...44.1436635!3e0
Those are the highest peaks in NH and the top 5 in the Northeast. Mount Marcy is 6th and Algonquin Peak is 9th in the region.
So, Albany is slightly closer to the high peaks of the Adirondacks than Manchester is to the Presidential Range mountains of NH. Even if you use the Franconia Mountains, which are about an hour and a half/45 minutes from Manchester, Albany is closer to Hunter Mountain and is about the same drive time to Slide Mountain, the 2 4000+ foot mountains in the Catskills. This isn't even considering that Albany is just as close to Killington in VT as Manchester is and that the Capital District/Albany CSA has about 1.2 million people. Meaning, that is a comparable region to the state of NH.
That actually isn't exactly true, as I mentioned earlier, Kingston is within minutes of the Catskills, which actually have 2 4000 foot mountains. Albany is actually closer to the second highest peak in the Adirondacks, which is next to the first highest(Mount Marcy): https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Alba...44.1436635!3e0
Those are the highest peaks in NH and the top 5 in the Northeast. Mount Marcy is 6th and Algonquin Peak is 9th in the region.
So, Albany is slightly closer to the high peaks of the Adirondacks than Manchester is to the Presidential Range mountains of NH. Even if you use the Franconia Mountains, which are about an hour and a half/45 minutes from Manchester, Albany is closer to Hunter Mountain and is about the same drive time to Slide Mountain, the 2 4000+ foot mountains in the Catskills. This isn't even considering that Albany is just as close to Killington in VT as Manchester is and that the Capital District/Albany CSA has about 1.2 million people. Meaning, that is a comparable region to the state of NH.
On a side note, Portland appears to be overlooked in the proximity to mountains conversation and is a bigger area than Manchester.
I'm also still curious about what the cities in NH, ME, Western MA and VT offer compared to the similarly sized cities in Upstate NY.
The distances are significantly closer. But the reason the drive times are higher is the Mt Washington auto road. While the Drive time is to a trail head. Which you know is a real road. The Auto road takes 40 minutes to drive up. Manchester is 1:46 minutes from the comparable trailhead.
The main complaint people have about the Whites vs the Adks is the Whites are too crowded.
Why do you think that is? Don’t you think it’s because it’s more easily assessable to way more people? Or is it way better than the Adirondacks.
Manchester is 85 minutes from a 5250ft mountain. Roads get weird so driving directions to mountain tops are weird since google just randomly pick the point on a road that plysucally closest to the mountain not like the point where you can hike from. But as the crow flies, Manchester is closer to all 4000 footers than Albany is to all high peaks
Last edited by btownboss4; 04-01-2023 at 10:50 PM..
The distances are significantly closer. But the reason the drive times are higher is the Mt Washington auto road. While the Drive time is to a trail head. Which you know is a real road. The Auto road takes 40 minutes to drive up. Manchester is 1:46 minutes from the comparable trailhead.
The main complaint people have about the Whites vs the Adks is the Whites are too crowded.
Why do you think that is? Don’t you think it’s because it’s more easily assessable to way more people? Or is it way better than the Adirondacks.
Manchester is 85 minutes from a 5250ft mountain. Roads get weird so driving directions to mountain tops are weird since google just randomly pick the point on a road that plysucally closest to the mountain not like the point where you can hike from. But as the crow flies, Manchester is closer to all 4000 footers than Albany is to all high peaks
Actually if you look, the distance in terms of miles are pretty much the same or similar. Plus, you say this as if the same doesn’t apply for Albany and it’s distance to the Adirondack High Peaks.
The Adirondacks get plenty of people and it is much bigger. So, to compare the two given how big Adirondack Park is, it isn’t really a comparison. What may help the Whites is the national forest versus the state owned Adirondack Park. So, people may be more familiar with national affiliated parks, but the Adirondacks still get a lot of visitors based on its size. Hence a group like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Forty-Sixers
The thing is that Syracuse, Utica, Rome, Watertown(which has the Thousand Islands minutes away), Plattsburgh(on Lake Champlain and about an hour from 4 million+ person metro area), Glens Falls, Saratoga Springs, Schenectady, Troy, Kingston, Poughkeepsie, Middletown, Newburgh, Beacon, Binghamton, Oneonta, Hudson and some other communities/cities are all within a couple of hours from either the Adirondacks and/or the Catskills, which have 48 4000+ foot peaks between them. This isn’t including some of these places are within close proximity to mountains in adjacent states or a place like Ellicottville that is within a couple of hours or less from Buffalo or Rochester. So, access to mountains isn’t an issue in most of Upstate NY.
I will say that I’m curious if an area like the Tug Hill Plateau(and the surrounding area), which is known for being a good location for snowmobiling is available in the other states/regions. https://tughill.org/tug-hill-region/
Actually if you look, the distance in terms of miles are pretty much the same or similar. Plus, you say this as if the same doesn’t apply for Albany and it’s distance to the Adirondack High Peaks.
The Adirondacks get plenty of people and it is much bigger. So, to compare the two given how big Adirondack Park is, it isn’t really a comparison. What may help the Whites is the national forest versus the state owned Adirondack Park. So, people may be more familiar with national affiliated parks, but the Adirondacks still get a lot of visitors based on its size. Hence a group like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Forty-Sixers
The thing is that Syracuse, Utica, Rome, Watertown(which has the Thousand Islands minutes away), Plattsburgh(on Lake Champlain and about an hour from 4 million+ person metro area), Glens Falls, Saratoga Springs, Schenectady, Troy, Kingston, Poughkeepsie, Middletown, Newburgh, Beacon, Binghamton, Oneonta, Hudson and some other communities/cities are all within a couple of hours from either the Adirondacks and/or the Catskills, which have 48 4000+ foot peaks between them. This isn’t including some of these places are within close proximity to mountains in adjacent states or a place like Ellicottville that is within a couple of hours or less from Buffalo or Rochester. So, access to mountains isn’t an issue in most of Upstate NY.
I will say that I’m curious if an area like the Tug Hill Plateau(and the surrounding area), which is known for being a good location for snowmobiling is available in the other states/regions. https://tughill.org/tug-hill-region/
With this said, there is more to the criteria than proximity to mountains that really hasn’t been touched on for the New England regions/states.
I would drop it if you were not so obstinate to pretend abscess to mountains for Concord and Buffalo are the same. They’re not. It’s not even close. On Average a NH resident is about an hour from a 4000 footer. That is very much not true for New Yorkers.
the True but Upstate does worse in jobs, NH is much wealthier than Upstate New York. I’d also say They’re a solid 3rd in Skiing since again, the Ski resorts that are any good are quite far from where people live (wgych is largely west of Syracuse and South of Kingston.
I understand Hunter exists but it does get 50% less snow and is 500 feet smaller than the Loon, Cannon, Waterville and Attitash. And would solidly be in The 2nd tier of NH ski areas. In addition since it’s significantly further south, it’s warmer and doesn’t hold snow as well as even the Cranmores and Sunapees of the world
Over 1/2 of Upstate New Yorkers live in Buffalo, Rochester, which are quite far from the best NY can offer.
You’re arguing against something that just a geographic fact.
Maine suffered for the same reason. Like Moosehead Lake or Sugarbush or Baxter St park are very very remote, this get much lower volumes of visitors than comparable places in New Hampshire
Almost the entire reason the Berkshire economy exists is because the Adirondacks are too far from the NYC suburbs to be worth the drive so they stop off in Hancock instead
Last edited by btownboss4; 04-02-2023 at 08:13 AM..
I would drop it if you were not so obstinate to pretend abscess to mountains for Concord and Buffalo are the same. They’re not. It’s not even close. On Average a NH resident is about an hour from a 4000 footer. That is very much not true for New Yorkers.
the True but Upstate does worse in jobs, NH is much wealthier than Upstate New York. I’d also say They’re a solid 3rd in Skiing since again, the Ski resorts that are any good are quite far from where people live (wgych is largely west of Syracuse and South of Kingston.
I understand Hunter exists but it does get 50% less snow and is 500 feet smaller than the Loon, Cannon, Waterville and Attitash. And would solidly be in The 2nd tier of NH ski areas. In addition since it’s significantly further south, it’s warmer and doesn’t hold snow as well as even the Cranmores and Sunapees of the world
Over 1/2 of Upstate New Yorkers live in Buffalo, Rochester, which are quite far from the best NY can offer.
You’re arguing against something that just a geographic fact.
Maine suffered for the same reason. Like Moosehead Lake or Sugarbush or Baxter St park are very very remote, this get much lower volumes of visitors than comparable places in New Hampshire
Almost the entire reason the Berkshire economy exists is because the Adirondacks are too far from the NYC suburbs to be worth the drive so they stop off in Hancock instead
I didn’t say that Buffalo and Concord had the same access, but Concord and Plattsburgh or Glens Falls likely have the same access. Buffalo does have access to Ellicottville, regardless of your feelings about it.
I don’t know if Upstate does worse for jobs for the simple fact that the advantage for NH is due to proximity to Boston. Even that can be negated by the rail access into NYC for the Hudson Valley and that if you take the proximity for both states, the bigger Upstate NY areas have enough jobs and a lower cost of living. With the latter, that plays a part in terms of income, which isn’t really far off, if at all.
Also, it is incorrect that half of Upstate’s population is in WNY, given that the CNY/Capital District has as many people and the Hudson Valley has about 1 million people or so. Let alone other regions. There are about 7 million people in Upstate NY and those 2 areas have about 2.4 million people together.
Both of those areas are also bigger than those states in population and are close to Toronto and 2 Great Lakes, among other things. So, they offer quite a bit.
There is train access from NYC to the Adirondacks via Amtrak, which goes to Montreal too. The Berkshires get people from nearby metros/areas with as many people as the state of NH
This all seems fairly subjective and really comes down to what the OP wants.
Burlington VT, Portland Me are cute small cities that offer culture and relative proximity to mountains. Manchester also maybe works. Personally, I find it a little less interesting. But you are also somewhat in the Greater Boston orbit.
In NY, Albany is a good midsized MSA that has a reasonably healthy economy that offers proximity to the Catskills, Adirondacks, VT mountains. Saratoga is a smaller cute town that is a little closer to the ADKS and commutable to Albany area jobs.
Then you have the Hudson Valley/, Catskills. While the mountains aren't as grand as the northern region, you have proximity to NYC and lots of artists.
So there really isn't a clear cut answer. It really comes down to preference
This all seems fairly subjective and really comes down to what the OP wants.
Burlington VT, Portland Me are cute small cities that offer culture and relative proximity to mountains. Manchester also maybe works. Personally, I find it a little less interesting. But you are also somewhat in the Greater Boston orbit.
In NY, Albany is a good midsized MSA that has a reasonably healthy economy that offers proximity to the Catskills, Adirondacks, VT mountains. Saratoga is a smaller cute town that is a little closer to the ADKS and commutable to Albany area jobs.
Then you have the Hudson Valley/, Catskills. While the mountains aren't as grand as the northern region, you have proximity to NYC and lots of artists.
So there really isn't a clear cut answer. It really comes down to preference
I think of the Hudson Valley as the sweet spot of the Northeast because of its central location. To the West, you have the Catskills and a large amount of public land. To the east, is the Berkshires and the Green Mountains. To the South, its the Hudson Highlands and eventually New York City. And to the North, its the Adirondacks and a huge amounts of lakes and public lands. There is even a tremendous amount of history and things to do within the valley itself.
What is missing is the ocean and even that isn't that far away for mini vacations.
On a more macro level, if your living in the Albany/Saratoga area, you got New York City to the South, Montreal to the North, Boston to the East and Niagara Falls/Buffalo and even Toronto to the West. Its a great location.
I thought that this would be a fun comparison...And for the purposes of this thread, upstate NY will start north of the NYC msa. Western Mass will be everything west of Worcester County to the NY border.
Let's compare the aforementioned states using the following criteria:
1. Access to mountains
2. Access to hiking
3. Access to to traditional small towns with walkable cores.
4. Access to culture
5. Access to outdoor motorsports (motorbikes, snowmobiles, etc)
6. Friendliest people
7. Access to lakes
8. Access to jobs
9. What else have I forgotten?
In terms of the bolded portion of #3, here is a list of such places in the WNY portion of Upstate NY...
I didn’t say that Buffalo and Concord had the same access, but Concord and Plattsburgh or Glens Falls likely have the same access. Buffalo does have access to Ellicottville, regardless of your feelings about it.
I don’t know if Upstate does worse for jobs for the simple fact that the advantage for NH is due to proximity to Boston. Even that can be negated by the rail access into NYC for the Hudson Valley and that if you take the proximity for both states, the bigger Upstate NY areas have enough jobs and a lower cost of living. With the latter, that plays a part in terms of income, which isn’t really far off, if at all.
Also, it is incorrect that half of Upstate’s population is in WNY, given that the CNY/Capital District has as many people and the Hudson Valley has about 1 million people or so. Let alone other regions. There are about 7 million people in Upstate NY and those 2 areas have about 2.4 million people together.
Both of those areas are also bigger than those states in population and are close to Toronto and 2 Great Lakes, among other things. So, they offer quite a bit.
There is train access from NYC to the Adirondacks via Amtrak, which goes to Montreal too. The Berkshires get people from nearby metros/areas with as many people as the state of NH
WNY includes the Southern tier out to about Owego maybe? So west of Syracuse is about 1/2 NYS population which is quite far away from a lot of what this is about, hiking, skiing, jobs of similar quality than NH offers.
While they do have the Great Lakes, NH has the ocean.
I lived in Elmira and lived in Rochester and let me tell you, no matter how posts you posts, to those people, the Adirondacks may as well be the Tetons
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