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I'm still not sure why you're referring to Washington DC. The District of Columbia is an urban East Coast city in the mid-Atlantic, that's urban core is designed to be like Paris. It's not in the conversation for Sunbelt anything. I've never heard anyone in my entire life time say that before. You wanna test the waters and start a poll asking that exact question about DC proper specifically go right ahead and good luck trying to prove your point...
As for Northern Virginia, there's postwar sprawling suburbs there yes, and yet it's still not part of the Sunbelt. Funny how that works out isn't it? In the same way that central New Jersey isn't the "sun belt" NOVA isn't either. Lol you also didn't post an example of "NOVA" being a part of the Sunbelt, you found some random post put onto a Brittanica page that used "Virginia" in the definition not specifying anything. Does NOVA, as well as other newer postwar suburbs in the NE, and other parts of the country, have similar housing stock as places in the Sunbelt? Sure. That doesn't place any of them in the sunbelt at all.
Northern Virginia is a region not a city. There's different weather across all of it, so comparing individual cities to it's weather is kind of pointless. The average temps in Leesburg, VA in Jan/Feb are 34 and 36 degrees with lows in the 20's. Charlotte averages in Jan/Feb 41 and 45 degrees with lows in the mid to upper-30's. That's the issue again with trying to categorize all of Northern VA as one thing, proving yourself inaccurate in trying to define it as such.
But unlike the rest of you all who'd love to belabor this moot topic. I'll just continue to point out what was said about rail transit being made in this thread. That's only reason I'm even discussing anything in this thread. The cities/metros that most effectively zone land, and work with local developers to incentives TOD around their transit systems going forward will be the one of the most critical factors in seeing these systems increase ridership in the long term.
So the DMV is 100% not the sunbelt(and amorphous concept of post war boom towns) but it is the Mid Atlantic, a region with an official government designation by the census bureau that does not include DC.
While there are some of postwar Suburban neighborhoods in New York, Boston, Philly, pretty much the majority of the region is largely prewar neighborhoods. That is just not true in the DMV. The age of buildings in DMV is much much more like metro Atlanta than metro Boston
As for the Brittanica article, What state in NOVA in?
Has the Census Dept. changed their region definitions in the past century? Their job is to keep the definitions static so they can track things in parallel more easily, and they don't change things based on how a place evolves over time.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDfinest
This is great news for DC and the entire DMV as a whole. Hopefully our system can recover back to pre-pandemic numbers. Randy Clarke is doing a good job so far.
I'm foreseeing DC likely becoming and remaining the most impressive rail transit core in the US outside of NYC in the upcoming decades if it isn't already. At the current trajectory the city will still gain two new major lines in the upcoming years. The MD Purple Line under construction, and a new line in the city core.
Plans are really steaming up for a WMATA extension separating the Blue Line and creating a loop in the core running across town providing service to Georgetown, National Harbor, Buzzard Point among many other places, and relieving the current bottleneck in Rosslyn. Other options include making a Silver Line "Express" route with the separate tunnel in Rosslyn, or instead of the loop, sending the Blue Line to Greenbelt. To be clear this is a 20 year at best project down the line, likely more.
The Blue Line loop option, or "Bloop" would have the potential to add up to 180k new weekday riders. As I've said before this is DC's version of adding the 2nd Ave Subway line in Manhattan, and it would totally distance itself from other systems not already at it's level today.
I think when looking at all 6 options for WMATA, one of which includes a "no build" option that would just funnel money to other forms of transit like buses, and also potentially kick in to help out the non-WMATA operated MD Purple line, that the likely favored option is the Blue Line loop connecting MD and VA without having to go through DC, as well as relieving the Rosslyn tunnel logjam. The ridership potential and development potential is mostly endless. It would be a phased project at a price tag of $25-30B in today's dollars, but the "Bloop" option is actually about $5B less than what the Silver Line Express would cost, and with more ridership potential.
I'm foreseeing DC likely becoming and remaining the most impressive rail transit core in the US outside of NYC in the upcoming decades if it isn't already. At the current trajectory the city will still gain two new major lines in the upcoming years. The MD Purple Line under construction, and a new line in the city core.
Plans are really steaming up for a WMATA extension separating the Blue Line and creating a loop in the core running across town providing service to Georgetown, National Harbor, Buzzard Point among many other places, and relieving the current bottleneck in Rosslyn. Other options include making a Silver Line "Express" route with the separate tunnel in Rosslyn, or instead of the loop, sending the Blue Line to Greenbelt. To be clear this is a 20 year at best project down the line, likely more.
The Blue Line loop option, or "Bloop" would have the potential to add up to 180k new weekday riders. As I've said before this is DC's version of adding the 2nd Ave Subway line in Manhattan, and it would totally distance itself from other systems not already at it's level today.
I think when looking at all 6 options for WMATA, one of which includes a "no build" option that would just funnel money to other forms of transit like buses, and also potentially kick in to help out the non-WMATA operated MD Purple line, that the likely favored option is the Blue Line loop connecting MD and VA without having to go through DC, as well as relieving the Rosslyn tunnel logjam. The ridership potential and development potential is mostly endless. It would be a phased project at a price tag of $25-30B in today's dollars, but the "Bloop" option is actually about $5B less than what the Silver Line Express would cost, and with more ridership potential.
Full circle lines are pretty bad ideas, especially in places like the US because 1 delay screws everything up forever. London broke up its Circle line (although something runs on each bit of Track.
I'm foreseeing DC likely becoming and remaining the most impressive rail transit core in the US outside of NYC in the upcoming decades if it isn't already. At the current trajectory the city will still gain two new major lines in the upcoming years. The MD Purple Line under construction, and a new line in the city core.
Plans are really steaming up for a WMATA extension separating the Blue Line and creating a loop in the core running across town providing service to Georgetown, National Harbor, Buzzard Point among many other places, and relieving the current bottleneck in Rosslyn. Other options include making a Silver Line "Express" route with the separate tunnel in Rosslyn, or instead of the loop, sending the Blue Line to Greenbelt. To be clear this is a 20 year at best project down the line, likely more.
The Blue Line loop option, or "Bloop" would have the potential to add up to 180k new weekday riders. As I've said before this is DC's version of adding the 2nd Ave Subway line in Manhattan, and it would totally distance itself from other systems not already at it's level today.
I think when looking at all 6 options for WMATA, one of which includes a "no build" option that would just funnel money to other forms of transit like buses, and also potentially kick in to help out the non-WMATA operated MD Purple line, that the likely favored option is the Blue Line loop connecting MD and VA without having to go through DC, as well as relieving the Rosslyn tunnel logjam. The ridership potential and development potential is mostly endless. It would be a phased project at a price tag of $25-30B in today's dollars, but the "Bloop" option is actually about $5B less than what the Silver Line Express would cost, and with more ridership potential.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Full circle lines are pretty bad ideas, especially in places like the US because 1 delay screws everything up forever. London broke up its Circle line (although something runs on each bit of Track.
I think this can be remedied at least on the VA side where the loop would meet Huntington station, an already existing terminus station that runs in the direction of north/south. It would be interesting to see if selected, what kind of constructing could be done to either bypass or re-route trains there to at least pull trains off the tracks if needed. There is also a middle (3rd) track at least on the Reagan National airport station from when it was the terminus of the BL but I'm not sure if that's ideal for turning trains around or not. I'm sure the mistakes made with the London loop would be looked at heavily if this option became a reality.
The Blue Line loop option, or "Bloop" would have the potential to add up to 180k new weekday riders. As I've said before this is DC's version of adding the 2nd Ave Subway line in Manhattan, and it would totally distance itself from other systems not already at it's level today.
Instead of doing a loop, the Blue Line should branch off after Pentagon and head southwest via Columbia Pike to Bailey's Crossroads and Annandale, thus plugging a big hole in the inner-suburban service. Also, if they did the loop option, I don't know how they would get the tracks from Huntington to curve back up to the Beltway, under the assumption that they would use the Wilson Bridge to cross the river. But, given that this is one of the official options, I must assume that they've figured it out.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man
Instead of doing a loop, the Blue Line should branch off after Pentagon and head southwest via Columbia Pike to Bailey's Crossroads and Annandale, thus plugging a big hole in the inner-suburban service. Also, if they did the loop option, I don't know how they would get the tracks from Huntington to curve back up to the Beltway, under the assumption that they would use the Wilson Bridge to cross the river. But, given that this is one of the official options, I must assume that they've figured it out.
I'd love to see Columbia Pike get a Metro line also, but it's just not in WMATA's immediate plans to expand there. There was some talk before of an either light rail or street car there, that got shot down. Who knows if that will be revisited. I think for the 6 options being considered the loop works best, but to your point some specifics may need tweaking with regards to finding a way to pull trains back off the loop if necessary.
Heck for all we know they could choose another option, or just choose "not to build", although I think that is highly unlikely. This December we'll see.
I'm foreseeing DC likely becoming and remaining the most impressive rail transit core in the US outside of NYC in the upcoming decades if it isn't already. At the current trajectory the city will still gain two new major lines in the upcoming years. The MD Purple Line under construction, and a new line in the city core.
Plans are really steaming up for a WMATA extension separating the Blue Line and creating a loop in the core running across town providing service to Georgetown, National Harbor, Buzzard Point among many other places, and relieving the current bottleneck in Rosslyn. Other options include making a Silver Line "Express" route with the separate tunnel in Rosslyn, or instead of the loop, sending the Blue Line to Greenbelt. To be clear this is a 20 year at best project down the line, likely more.
The Blue Line loop option, or "Bloop" would have the potential to add up to 180k new weekday riders. As I've said before this is DC's version of adding the 2nd Ave Subway line in Manhattan, and it would totally distance itself from other systems not already at it's level today.
I think when looking at all 6 options for WMATA, one of which includes a "no build" option that would just funnel money to other forms of transit like buses, and also potentially kick in to help out the non-WMATA operated MD Purple line, that the likely favored option is the Blue Line loop connecting MD and VA without having to go through DC, as well as relieving the Rosslyn tunnel logjam. The ridership potential and development potential is mostly endless. It would be a phased project at a price tag of $25-30B in today's dollars, but the "Bloop" option is actually about $5B less than what the Silver Line Express would cost, and with more ridership potential.
It pretty much already is. It only has Chicago to compete with for that title.
DC/WMATA is leaving CTA in the dust. Chicago has been trying to expand the red lines into the far southside (which has suburban level density) for decades now, meanwhile DC is actively building new lines in high density areas
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