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Seattle already has far more transit ridership than Atlanta. It's just rail that's yet to surpass it (and will, easily, with the extensions in 2023, 2024, and 2025).
Seattle already has far more transit ridership than Atlanta. It's just rail that's yet to surpass it (and will, easily, with the extensions in 2023, 2024, and 2025).
Have you heard of any plans to make Sounder commuter rail into frequent regional rail that through-runs in the city center?
It'll be really hard to add trains, though that's the goal. The region is ridiculously limited in rail infrastructure, and Burlington Northern controls everything.
Sounder South is gradually adding infrastructure to make better use of its limited time slots, with more garage parking and eventually longer platforms to allow 10-car trains. They had 13 trips per rush hour pre-Covid iirc, including 4 in the counter direction. In 2020 they anticipated negotiating for more trips, but that's not been as active during Covid. https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/d...plan-final.pdf
Sounder North is more restricted, with fewer trains, and has only limited plans in the near term. The rail itself has problems as it's shoehorned on narrow fill between water (hard to expand into) and a steep bluff where any falling pebble can cause a two-day passenger moratorium.
There are no plans to combine the lines. They're different train lengths and frequencies, and the train station requires the northern line (as well as Amtrak) to stop and back into it.
Seattle already has far more transit ridership than Atlanta. It's just rail that's yet to surpass it (and will, easily, with the extensions in 2023, 2024, and 2025).
How is that possible when they only have two lines of light rail meanwhile Atlanta has a whole heavy rail system with more stations and lines?
MARTA is a legit Metro/subway. Seattle's choo choo which isn't grade separated isn't. It won't surpass ATL. Let's keep it real. The buses are the only reason why Seattle has more transit ridership than ATL.
Buses. Seattle's main bus systems in Q1 had weekday averages of (thousands):
King County: 185.1 + 37.8 for trolleys
Sound Transit: 24.7
Pierce County: 20.0
Snohomish County: 20.1
= 287.7 bus trips per day
+ 77.7 for rail
Total: 365.4 -- not including the other services APTA counts, the largest being ferries in our case
Atlanta was nearly 100% one system, totaling:
201.1 for all services including 92.4 for rail and 106.3 for buses.
MARTA is a legit Metro/subway. Seattle's choo choo which isn't grade separated isn't. It won't surpass ATL. Let's keep it real. The buses are the only reason why Seattle has more transit ridership than ATL.
Funny. Let's check back in two years when Link is twice the system it is now. It won't be a contest.
For Chicago, there are relatively few and somewhat minor steps to make a large chunk of the system to combine current Millennium Station, Union Station, and LaSalle station terminating services into through-running Union Station. One of those lines with branches is currently already electrified and most of the rail needed for a large segment of the main service is owned by Metra or other public entities. Electrification can be partial electrification these days since BEMUs are available.
I am not that confident in BEMUs, esp for a system as large as Metra. Sure, a few foreign countries are using BEMUs in limited service, but Toronto recently rejected BEMU for its GO-Train service, electing to go with full-fledged electrification featuring traditional catenary construction. At least for now, BEMU batteries are too heavy for economical effective train use... Given this, I still see Chicago as a long way off from any serious S-Bahn-ing Metra.
btw, I somehow neglected to mention the obvious: that Philly's SEPTA is the ONLY American commuter rail system that is essentially S-Bahn ready (comprehensive/extensive (13 lines/branches), fully electrified, fully integrated w/ the Center City 4-track connector tunnel). Philly just needs to increase frequency and speeds in the downtown core and raise platforms for high-level, step-less train egress. Platform raising is slowly happening and I understand SEPTA has a plan in place for a radical upgrade in train frequency.
I can see where Atlanta has 48 miles of rail. On the other hand Seattle has 118 miles of functional or funded rail expansion. As for the grade separated the original first section had 3 miles of none grade separated but there was issues with the rail. The rail built after that now and future are all grade separated . So it is most likely Seattle will pass Atlanta in rail ridership. Most likely with the south expansion and the east expansion opening in the next couple of years Seattle will pass Atlanta ridership.
I am not that confident in BEMUs, esp for a system as large as Metra. Sure, a few foreign countries are using BEMUs in limited service, but Toronto recently rejected BEMU for its GO-Train service, electing to go with full-fledged electrification featuring traditional catenary construction. At least for now, BEMU batteries are too heavy for economical effective train use... Given this, I still see Chicago as a long way off from any serious S-Bahn-ing Metra.
btw, I somehow neglected to mention the obvious: that Philly's SEPTA is the ONLY American commuter rail system that is essentially S-Bahn ready (comprehensive/extensive (13 lines/branches), fully electrified, fully integrated w/ the Center City 4-track connector tunnel). Philly just needs to increase frequency and speeds in the downtown core and raise platforms for high-level, step-less train egress. Platform raising is slowly happening and I understand SEPTA has a plan in place for a radical upgrade in train frequency.
BEMUs are ready in Europe, but need to be modified for US passenger rail specifications which isn't as bad given reforms a few years back that bring US passenger rail specifications closer to European standards. It's not too heavy for operations especially as you do need some heft to keep contact with the tracks and the low rolling resistance of steel wheel on steel rail means that you don't incur a large efficiency penalty and meanwhile you have a more direct and efficient way of harvesting power back from regenerative braking. Because of the branching that sometimes goes into track that isn't owned by Metra and would potentially need to serve double-stack freight, some form of BEMU makes sense if they want to rapidly expand. GO Transit owns a very large portion of its tracks, so it's easier for them to make the call for full electrification. I think Chicago is a long way off from completely S-Bahn-ing all of Metra, but it has a fairly low hanging fruit for getting to the first part of the Crossrail Chicago plan given right-of-ways are in place and track ownership for those segments and stations and that Union Station can be pretty easily modified for through-running since it was built out for much more train traffic and has a large mostly unused former mail train area. Metra's also over the course of the pandemic become much more open to running higher off-peak frequencies and getting intracity fare prices down. I think of BEMUs with partial electrification as potentially the US's best ticket to rapidly put legacy rail track and right-of-way to much better use.
Yes, Philly is what I put at the top because it is very much S-Bahn ready. There's even room for a *second* through-running in a north-south orientation through 30th Street Station similar to how Amtrak runs if necessary and there's also a wye just northwest of 30th Street Station that potentially can be through-running ignoring University City and Center City if need be (if there ever comes the day when there's actually that much ridership and capacity is used). Building more high-level platforms and more grade separations would be very helpful, but isn't strictly necessary. They probably should also change their fare system to be less manpower-intensive and adjust fare prices. These are relatively minor needs and obstacles compared to other systems though. I'd certainly like to see this happen and for Glenwood to become a secondary CBD for Philadelphia since it's where a lot of the Regional Rail lines as well as NJT Atlantic City cross through.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-01-2023 at 01:14 PM..
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