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4) Cincinnati - great downtown and a couple of super quaint, walkable and historic neighborhoods. Not a fan of the area though once you get out of the city (suburban parts of KY, OH, WV, IN)
3) Kansas City - such great history and bones downtown! Great culture institutions for its size. Some good neighborhoods. Far from a lot of other places being in middle of country, though
2) Charlotte - great climate, good location at the foothills of the smokies and blue ridge mountains. Fast-growing, with lots of jobs. A bit non-unique overall though, in terms of culture and city identity. Like Atlanta but very light and much smaller
1) Sacramento - under-rated city. Awesome location, beautiful surrounding region, growing and some great culture.
FWIW, Denver's nickname is "The Queen City of the Plains," which I actually consider something of a misnomer. Yes, it sits at the west edge of the Great Plains, but its economy doesn't depend on Plains agriculture, and its popular image rests more heavily on the mountains to its west.
But given the criteria laid out in the OP, Denver belongs in this discussion as well. But the grain grown on the plains of eastern Colorado ends up in Kansas City.
I'll admit to being a homer here regarding KC, which I think one poster upthread sold short. Its civic amenities IMO are actually quite good, and some of those "touristy" places the locals also value (like the National World War I Memorial and Museum and the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, the latter among the nation's 20 best). Ditto the Country Club Plaza, the nation's first planned shopping center. And there's BBQ, of course. I hate to say this, but the city's sharp racial residential segregation means crime isn't all that much of a worry west of Troost, which is also where all those nice amenities lie (save for Swope Park).
I'd have to check the house prices, but if it's close to Sacramento, then I'd still say the amenities tilt the scale in KC's favor. Its winters may work against it for many Americans, however, relative to Sac.
I'd probably rank Sacramento third behind Cincinnati. However, doing that sells Charlotte short. Charlotte in the last two decades did what KC did in the 1920s and 1930s, namely, build an impressive infrastructure of civic and cultural amenities in a relatively short time. And it has a more extensive light rail network than any of the cities in this group save possibly Sacramento.
Edited to add: I do note, however, that this thread is titled "Battle of the American Royalty." Well, Kansas City is home to the American Royal (livestock and horse show since 1899, rodeo and World Series of Barbecue, all held concurrently in the fall).
I'm spending 5 days vacationing in Kansas City right now and I agree. I'm in Day 3 today and there's a lot to see and I'm already having to triage places since I won't have time.
I spent 5 hours at the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art on Day 1 + Kemper Museum of Contemporary Art.
Day 2 was National Museum of Toys and Miniatures > Saint Francis Xavier Church (Art Deco) > Joe's Kansas City Bar-B-Que > Country Club Plaza > Mill Creek Park > Westport > Broadway Architecture (lots of midrise pre-war towers) > Uptown Theatre > Miami Ice > Prosperos Books
Today I have River Market, Truman Library, Truman Home, Independence Square, Community of Christ Temple, Vaile Mansion, Town Topic Hamburgers
Tomorrow is a tour de force of Downtown (for the pre-wars like Power and Light Building, Jackson County Courthouse, 909 Walnut, KC City Hall), West Bottoms, Arabia Steamboat Museum, 18th and Vine, Gem Theatre, American Jazz Museum, Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, City Diner, Western Auto
Then Tuesday is National World War I Museum, Scout Statue, Union Station, Hallmark Visitor Center, Money Museum (if time permits), some more BBQ to close the trip.
5 days for a metro of 2 million is very impressive. I think I needed 4-5 in Cincinnati to do the same (though I adore that city and would love to go back). And my planned tour of Charlotte this Fall is 3 days and a bit light at that. I could theoretically do it in 2 days (a lot of the sights are niche like NASCAR or Billy Graham or Whitewater Rafting - none of which really appeal to me). And Sacramento was beautiful in the downtown (California State Capitol and Cathedral of the Blessed Sacramento) and Old Sacramento, but after 2.5 days I was done.
I'm spending 5 days vacationing in Kansas City right now and I agree. I'm in Day 3 today and there's a lot to see and I'm already having to triage places since I won't have time.
I spent 5 hours at the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art on Day 1 + Kemper Museum of Contemporary Art.
Day 2 was National Museum of Toys and Miniatures > Saint Francis Xavier Church (Art Deco) > Joe's Kansas City Bar-B-Que > Country Club Plaza > Mill Creek Park > Westport > Broadway Architecture (lots of midrise pre-war towers) > Uptown Theatre > Miami Ice > Prosperos Books
Today I have River Market, Truman Library, Truman Home, Independence Square, Community of Christ Temple, Vaile Mansion, Town Topic Hamburgers
Tomorrow is a tour de force of Downtown (for the pre-wars like Power and Light Building, Jackson County Courthouse, 909 Walnut, KC City Hall), West Bottoms, Arabia Steamboat Museum, 18th and Vine, Gem Theatre, American Jazz Museum, Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, City Diner, Western Auto
Then Tuesday is National World War I Museum, Scout Statue, Union Station, Hallmark Visitor Center, Money Museum (if time permits), some more BBQ to close the trip.
5 days for a metro of 2 million is very impressive. I think I needed 4-5 in Cincinnati to do the same (though I adore that city and would love to go back). And my planned tour of Charlotte this Fall is 3 days and a bit light at that. I could theoretically do it in 2 days (a lot of the sights are niche like NASCAR or Billy Graham or Whitewater Rafting - none of which really appeal to me). And Sacramento was beautiful in the downtown (California State Capitol and Cathedral of the Blessed Sacramento) and Old Sacramento, but after 2.5 days I was done.
KC punches well above its weight.
What I've been shouting from the rooftops to anyone who will listen.
I was having a conversation with a friend who had visited St. Louis but not KC. After telling him what he could expect and some of my takes on how KC became cool and the historical origins of that coolness (two words: "Tom's Town"*), he said he would visit, then told me that things seemed pretty quiet in St. Louis.
That's been the general reaction people who have been to both cities have had when I've talked with them about their visits. To a person, they enjoyed visiting Kansas City more than they did St Louis.
If you see this before you go, don't forget to take the elevators to the observation decks atop both City Hall and the National World War I Museum (I still call it the "Liberty Memorial") shaft. A ride in the latter is included with museum admission, and even though that cylinder is only 280 feet high, it sits atop a ridge some 75 to 100 feet above Union Station (also worth a visit) below it, so you get a panoramic view as good as or maybe even better than the one from the roof of City Hall (one flight of stairs up from the elevators on the 29th floor. BTW, at 443 feet from ground to roof, it's one of the nation's tallest city halls; I think the 548-foot-high tower on Philadelphia's city hall gives it the tallest-in-the-nation title). The WWI Memoiral observation deck is open every day; the one atop City Hall, on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. The latter is free.
*"Tom" is Boss Tom Pendergast, who never held elected office but ran the Jackson County Democratic Party from just after World War I until city voters tossed out his political machine in 1940. His tenure as one of America's most notorious political bosses coincided with Prohibition, which a visitor to KC at the time would never have guessed was in effect.
There's a craft distillery on Main Street in the Crossroads called Tom's Town Distilling Company; it's the first legal distillery within the Kansas City city limits since the end of Prohibition. One of its original spirits, Pendergast's Royal Gold Bourbon, revives the name of the whiskey Pendergast himself bottled and sold during this time.
The building housing the distillery has a large mural on its south side bearing the legend "The people are thirsty." This is what Pendergast told an Associated Press reporter who asked him why he tolerated all this rum-running in KC in the 1920s. The Pendergast years also coincide with the high-water years for Kansas City jazz; the city was the epicenter of jazz in America during that time. Much of this factors into the plot of Robert Altman's homage to his hometown, "Kansas City" (1996), a film in the style of his "Nashville" set on the eve of a municipal election in 1934.
P.S. If the only BBQ you've eaten so far is at Joe's KC, you've barely scratched the surface of what's on offer in one of the nation's undisputed barbecue capitals. Also worth visiting are Bryant's, one of the two Q joints that trace their histories to Henry Perry, the grandfather of KC Q; Q39 in Roanoke, one of the best upscale Q joints in the region; LC's on Blue Parkway, which my brother, who still lives there, won't visit but I maintain has the best burnt ends (a KC specialty) in the area; and a newcomer in North Kansas City (where my brother lives) called ºF325 that serves very impressive Q in a cute industrial suburb north of downtown. (The name of the place is significant. Can you guess what it refers to?)
Also: If you would like to tour a distillery with a pedigree stretching back to before the start of Prohibition, head up to the cute little town of Weston, in Platte County just northwest of KCI Airport, and take a tour of the McCormick distillery. Founded in 1856, it's the oldest distillery west of the Mississippi still operating in its original location. This place, btw, is where 360 Vodka is produced.
Edited to add a couple more recommendations: When you visit the West Bottoms (home to the nation's second-larges stockyards until the Great Flood of 1951 led to their slow demise), stop by Amigoni Urban Winery, located in the old offices of the Drovers' Daily Telegram on Genessee Street. Yes, they make their own wine, with grapes sourced from the West Coast.
If you want to splurge, you can have lunch or dinner in the Golden Ox Steak House in the Livestock Exchange Building just up Genessee. This is the last survivor of the city's old-school steakhouses.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 07-23-2023 at 11:34 AM..
Been to all these cities except Cincinnati. Born in Sacramento, it's my hometown and most if my family is still there. Lived in Charlotte and loved it and it remains one of my favorite cities anywhere in the country...
Charlotte is #1, just a beautiful, energetic, popping ass city. Beautiful people to match the beautiful landscape. Low violent crime rates, very large black middle class compared to most cities, lower black impoverishment, sizable black upper class...
Sacramento is next, just a criminally underrated city currently in its black golden era...
Kansas City is among the worst major cities I've seen. Just dull looking, I second that it seems light on amenities for its size, one of the most dangerous cities in America, horrible location and geography. Big nope to KC...
Have a feeling I'd love Cincinnati though and it's on my ”places to visit” list!
What I've been shouting from the rooftops to anyone who will listen.
I was having a conversation with a friend who had visited St. Louis but not KC. After telling him what he could expect and some of my takes on how KC became cool and the historical origins of that coolness (two words: "Tom's Town"*), he said he would visit, then told me that things seemed pretty quiet in St. Louis.
That's been the general reaction people who have been to both cities have had when I've talked with them about their visits. To a person, they enjoyed visiting Kansas City more than they did St Louis.
If you see this before you go, don't forget to take the elevators to the observation decks atop both City Hall and the National World War I Museum (I still call it the "Liberty Memorial") shaft. A ride in the latter is included with museum admission, and even though that cylinder is only 280 feet high, it sits atop a ridge some 75 to 100 feet above Union Station (also worth a visit) below it, so you get a panoramic view as good as or maybe even better than the one from the roof of City Hall (one flight of stairs up from the elevators on the 29th floor. BTW, at 443 feet from ground to roof, it's one of the nation's tallest city halls; I think the 548-foot-high tower on Philadelphia's city hall gives it the tallest-in-the-nation title). The WWI Memoiral observation deck is open every day; the one atop City Hall, on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. The latter is free.
*"Tom" is Boss Tom Pendergast, who never held elected office but ran the Jackson County Democratic Party from just after World War I until city voters tossed out his political machine in 1940. His tenure as one of America's most notorious political bosses coincided with Prohibition, which a visitor to KC at the time would never have guessed was in effect.
There's a craft distillery on Main Street in the Crossroads called Tom's Town Distilling Company; it's the first legal distillery within the Kansas City city limits since the end of Prohibition. One of its original spirits, Pendergast's Royal Gold Bourbon, revives the name of the whiskey Pendergast himself bottled and sold during this time.
The building housing the distillery has a large mural on its south side bearing the legend "The people are thirsty." This is what Pendergast told an Associated Press reporter who asked him why he tolerated all this rum-running in KC in the 1920s. The Pendergast years also coincide with the high-water years for Kansas City jazz; the city was the epicenter of jazz in America during that time. Much of this factors into the plot of Robert Altman's homage to his hometown, "Kansas City" (1996), a film in the style of his "Nashville" set on the eve of a municipal election in 1934.
P.S. If the only BBQ you've eaten so far is at Joe's KC, you've barely scratched the surface of what's on offer in one of the nation's undisputed barbecue capitals. Also worth visiting are Bryant's, one of the two Q joints that trace their histories to Henry Perry, the grandfather of KC Q; Q39 in Roanoke, one of the best upscale Q joints in the region; LC's on Blue Parkway, which my brother, who still lives there, won't visit but I maintain has the best burnt ends (a KC specialty) in the area; and a newcomer in North Kansas City (where my brother lives) called ºF325 that serves very impressive Q in a cute industrial suburb north of downtown. (The name of the place is significant. Can you guess what it refers to?)
Also: If you would like to tour a distillery with a pedigree stretching back to before the start of Prohibition, head up to the cute little town of Weston, in Platte County just northwest of KCI Airport, and take a tour of the McCormick distillery. Founded in 1856, it's the oldest distillery west of the Mississippi still operating in its original location. This place, btw, is where 360 Vodka is produced.
Edited to add a couple more recommendations: When you visit the West Bottoms (home to the nation's second-larges stockyards until the Great Flood of 1951 led to their slow demise), stop by Amigoni Urban Winery, located in the old offices of the Drovers' Daily Telegram on Genessee Street. Yes, they make their own wine, with grapes sourced from the West Coast.
If you want to splurge, you can have lunch or dinner in the Golden Ox Steak House in the Livestock Exchange Building just up Genessee. This is the last survivor of the city's old-school steakhouses.
Thanks a ton! I’ll give this a close read tonight in advance of Days 4 and 5. Had no clue who Tom Pendergast was but today I learned about him at the Truman Museum (they had an entire exhibit on Harry Truman’s reluctant embrace of Pendergast when he started in local politics.
I’ve only had Joe’s so far and am eating a Pulled Pork Sandwich as I type this at Pigwich (which is delicious), but I don’t think that counts as KC BBQ lol?
Been to all these cities except Cincinnati. Born in Sacramento, it's my hometown and most if my family is still there. Lived in Charlotte and loved it and it remains one of my favorite cities anywhere in the country...
Charlotte is #1, just a beautiful, energetic, popping ass city. Beautiful people to match the beautiful landscape. Low violent crime rates, very large black middle class compared to most cities, lower black impoverishment, sizable black upper class...
Sacramento is next, just a criminally underrated city currently in its black golden era...
Kansas City is among the worst major cities I've seen. Just dull looking, I second that it seems light on amenities for its size, one of the most dangerous cities in America, horrible location and geography. Big nope to KC...
Have a feeling I'd love Cincinnati though and it's on my ”places to visit” list!
I personally wouldn't want to take another vacation to Sacramento, but if a good job opportunity was available there I would move there.
Sacramento is lacking in nightlife and the downtown isn't vibrant at all, but they have many great neighborhoods and filled with trees.
Sacramento has alot of quiet, very nice and historical neighborhoods from the 19th century adjacent to the downtown and very nice parks. It's a very quiet city overall in my opinion.
I have visited Cincinnati before and I loved the architecture, topography and lushness of that city.
I would enjoy vacations to Cincinnati, but it would not be a place I would want to reside.
I was trying to be nice, but honestly completely agree with you "Kansas City is among the worst major cities" they have two or three small touristy areas.
Kansas City always statistically year after year has some of the highest violent crime rates of any medium to large sized city and it's been like that for decades.
In regards to the personality of the city overall:
Sacramento has very polite people but it wasn't really friendly overall.
Cincinnati was also quite polite but I would not consider it friendly overall.
When I went to vacation in Kansas City, I thought a vast majority of the population was extremely, extremely rude and very unfriendly.
Thanks a ton! I’ll give this a close read tonight in advance of Days 4 and 5. Had no clue who Tom Pendergast was but today I learned about him at the Truman Museum (they had an entire exhibit on Harry Truman’s reluctant embrace of Pendergast when he started in local politics.
I’ve only had Joe’s so far and am eating a Pulled Pork Sandwich as I type this at Pigwich (which is delicious), but I don’t think that counts as KC BBQ lol?
Well, Truman did put distance between himself and the Pendergast machine, but it did give him his start in Jackson County politics. And when he wound up in the Senate in 1935, his opponents did call him "the Senator from Pendergast."
And President Truman did return to Kansas City to attend Boss Tom's funeral in 1945.
I guess you could say "it's complicated." When I wrote my column, however, I spoke with the author of a book called "Tom and Harry" about the relationship between the two. Truman made the fact that only 0.25 of the 640 miles of all-weather county highways he built were paved with Pendergast concrete a symbol of his independence from the machine, but the author pointed out that Tom really didn't care about whose concrete he used as long as he put Democrats to work, which he did.
Pulled pork is a Carolina thing, but this is Barbecue Central, where many styles co-exist. Just remember to get burnt ends somewhere.
Kansas City always statistically year after year has some of the highest violent crime rates of any medium to large sized city and it's been like that for decades.
In regards to the personality of the city overall:
Sacramento has very polite people but it wasn't really friendly overall.
Cincinnati was also quite polite but I would not consider it friendly overall.
When I went to vacation in Kansas City, I thought a vast majority of the population was extremely, extremely rude and very unfriendly.
1) I refer you to my post on where the crime takes place upthread. Stay west of Troost and you won't be bothered by it at all. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem in the 18th and Vine Jazz District, either. (Me: grew up east of Troost, went to school west of it.)
2) Again, de gustibus non disputandum est, but you're the first person I've encountered who has described Kansas Citians in that fashion. A more common reaction is that of my fellow East Coasters, who consider Kansas Citians' outgoing nature and nice-to-meet-you friendliness superficial.
Guess I'm in the minority but I Voted for Sacramento, it's like California on a budget, one of the few Cali places for Homes under $1 Million. And The Surrounding area is Tops for nature
Two Queen Cities, the City of Royals, and the City of Kings. Where would you live?
Which offers the most amenities (arts/culture, museums, history, beauty), quality of life, and has the best prospects? Which offers the most bang for your buck?
Kansas City is pretty high up there on amenities.
Quality of life is good. Crime is bad but easy enough to avoid.
Best prospects? I dunno. Its economy is good and diverse.
KC isn’t the bargain it used to be, but it’s not coastal either.
It’s the only one of these I’d live in by a long shot.
Friendly enough people, good food, lots to do, nice architecture, nice central location.
Cincy doesn’t appeal to me as a place to live but it seems similar.
I might would go just to visit, but I’ve seen enough of that part of the world to know I’d never live there. The topography is neat.
Sacramento: never been there and have no burning desire to go.
I’m sure it’s fine.
I have been to Charlotte several times. Not my cup of tea at all.
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