In 2023, is San Francisco closer in stature to San Diego or Los Angeles? (map, rates)

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

oh but plenty of highly educated, high income families certainly do pay that and far more, with pleasure, because the area has very posh towns with exceptional schools, low crime, warmer summers, lots of trees, proximity to the tech and finance jobs the Bay Area is known for, and the data confirms that the socio-economic nature of the Bay Area is very different from SoCal, which is why it's important for each of us to stay in our lane when make comments about issues such as livability and quality of life.

My guy... I work for a SF based tech company.

Nobody is claiming SoCal has the same economy as The Bay Area, but there are more educated, high income families that can afford to pay... and choose not, than those that decided to move to the Bay Area wether it be LA or SD.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

My guy... I work for a SF based tech company.

And that does not make you an authority on the socio-economic profile of the state of California.

there are more educated, high income families that can afford to pay... and choose not, than those that decided to move to the Bay Area whether it be LA or SD.

not sure at all what youre trying to say here, but the Bay Area has more millionaires and billionaires than LA and SD, as well as more tax filers earning $500,000+ a year.

Furthermore:

Here's a look at cities/towns in the big coastal MSAs that have 1,000+ dual-income families that average $200K+ annually...I divided the "Oakland side of the MSA" from the SF side to further inform you of the fact that lots of people who can live anywhere, live here. LOL.

Average Income for Dual Income Families(Both Spouses Work), 2021:

1,000+ Dual Income Families, $200,000+ Average

Oakland Metro Division:
Piedmont, CA $463,788(1,436)
Alamo, CA $406,907(1,371)
Orinda, CA $403,424(2,312)
Lafayette, CA $382,352(2,935)
Moraga, CA $336,016(1,565)
Danville, CA $323,578(5,203)
Dublin, CA $284,434(7,931)
Pleasanton, CA $280,678(8,804)
Berkeley, CA $274,080(8,200)
San Ramon, CA $273,289(9,166)
Fremont, CA $255,935(24,185)
El Cerrito, CA $237,693(2,734)
Albany, CA $233,450(2,324)
Walnut Creek, CA $233,158(6,478)
Livermore, CA $232,714(9,137)
Alameda, CA $231,742(7,755)
Newark, CA $228,048(4,116)
Oakland, CA $223,144(30,190)
Pleasant Hill, CA $221,689(3,143)
Discovery Bay, CA $213,175(1,448)
Martinez, CA $210,140(3,487)
Castro Valley, CA $209,745(5,953)
Union City, CA $209,034(4,892)

San Francisco & San Rafael Metro Divisions:
Hillsborough, CA $736,545(1,095)
Tamalpais-Homestead Valley, CA $411,540(1,401)
San Carlos, CA $398,958(3,851)
Menlo Park, CA $386,339(3,274)
Corte Madera, CA $371,070(1,230)
Belmont, CA $335,430(3,810)
Burlingame, CA $326,712(3,556)
Foster City, CA $319,953(3,456)
San Francisco, CA $298,607(67,197)
Redwood City, CA $294,650(8,661)
Half Moon Bay, CA $280,294(1,132)
San Mateo, CA $280,075(10,253)
Millbrae, CA $268,265(2,055)
San Rafael, CA $259,110(5,347)
Pacifica, CA $226,310(3,656)
Novato, CA $204,775(4,817)
East Palo Alto, CA $201,209(1,275)

San Jose Metro Area:
Los Altos, CA $515,212(3,439)
Saratoga, CA $444,062(3,146)
Palo Alto, CA $420,006(6,822)
Los Gatos, CA $381,320(3,505)
Cupertino, CA $373,502(6,000)
Mountain View, CA $351,018(8,747)
Sunnyvale, CA $312,092(14,950)
Campbell, CA $276,735(4,464)
Santa Clara, CA $270,189(12,118)
San Jose, CA $247,315(74,455)
Milpitas, CA $239,207(6,894)
Morgan Hill, CA $231,615(4,049)

Los Angeles Metro Area:
Palos Verdes Estates, CA $423,453(1,036)
Beverly Hills, CA $377,348(2,298)
Sierra Madre, CA $357,078(1,130)
Manhattan Beach, CA $351,277(3,463)
Newport Beach, CA $346,750(7,048)
Laguna Beach, CA $344,181(2,181)
La Canada-Flintridge, CA $337,701(2,372)
Calabasas, CA $333,426(2,029)
Coto de Caza, CA $325,313(1,661)
Hermosa Beach, CA $323,675(2,144)
San Marino, CA $312,234(1,069)
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA $295,888(3,964)
Santa Monica, CA $288,074(7,317)
Ladera Ranch, CA $264,979(2,537)
South Pasadena, CA $261,981(2,950)
Agoura Hills, CA $248,487(2,006)
Altadena, CA $247,526(3,122)
Rossmoor, CA $246,039(1,095)
San Clemente, CA $243,764(6,124)
Rancho Mission Viejo, CA $240,564(1,062)
Redondo Beach, CA $238,755(7,762)
Culver City, CA $237,948(4,392)
North Tustin, CA $234,188(2,642)
Dana Point, CA $233,415(2,998)
San Juan Capistrano, CA $230,929(2,543)
Laguna Niguel, CA $230,140(5,835)
Yorba Linda, CA $227,320(6,329)
Seal Beach, CA $225,897(1,703)
Laguna Hills, CA $225,744(2,417)
El Segundo, CA $222,964(1,835)
Claremont, CA $222,487(2,504)
Stevenson Ranch, CA $219,313(1,900)
Irvine, CA $213,752(26,242)
La Crescenta-Montrose, CA $209,135(1,846)
Walnut, CA $208,674(1,877)
Huntington Beach, CA $206,923(14,843)
Pasadena, CA $205,007(11,326)
Arcadia, CA $202,224(4,436)

San Diego Metro Area:
Encinitas, CA $267,916(6,096)
Solana Beach, CA $248,294(1,300)
Coronado, CA $240,920(1,900)
Carlsbad, CA $226,251(11,642)
Poway, CA $204,977(4,347)

Riverside Metro Area:
Rancho Mirage, CA $230,968(1,139)
Palm Springs, CA $213,800(2,546)
El Sobrante(Riverside), CA $212,114(1,438)
Temescal Valley, CA $207,003(2,312)

The work-life-balance dynamic Up North is very different, I have lived in Beverly Hills, Pacific Palisades, I went to school in Westwood, it's just different. The Bay Area almost feels East Coast-like in this regard, compared to Southern California--higher incomes are so pervasive that even the cities themselves, including OAKLAND, make the list, dual income families average over $200k--that's just due to the very good money and very good jobs in the area.

So whenever I read comments to the affect that everyone is suffering and this, that, and the other, I just yawn and think, absolutely clueless. This is one of the most pleasant areas to live on this continent, it's not a secret, and people love to twist that because it makes them feel better, I guess, but any suggestion that things are 'changing' is incorrect.

Bloomberg Article from Aug 1, 2023: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California
byline: The number of millionaires in the Golden State has surged at a time lower-income residents are leaving.

a small blip:
mnBy Eliyahu Kamisher, and Biz Carson
August 1, 2023 at 8:00 AM EDT

...“We’ve never seen an absolute growth in the number of millionaires like this data,” said Cristobal Young, a Cornell University professor who has studied wealth migration. “Ultimately, California is a great place to make money.”

As California’s richest residents reaped new fortunes, wages stagnated at the bottom end of the income spectrum. The state lost population for the first time in its history for the past three years — amounting to more than 500,000 people — fueled mostly by lower and middle-income residents relocating to cheaper locales such as Texas and Arizona...

This is very fascinating and totally counterintuitive to what the media has otherwise been saying and according to this article: The number of Californians earning $50M+ has soared by 156% in 2 years.

The majority of this growth is in the Bay Area. Period.

So we can continue the charade that the area is teetering and nobody with means wants to live here, blah blah blah, but why? Numbers don't lie.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by mhays25

One media market, one job market, one sports market, continuous dense development, one major downtown, one dominant airport...

A cadre of people will always argue the other way but all major signs are aligned.

Are you sure about that?

Downtown San Jose population: 75,000

Downtown San Francisco population: 20,000

San Jose has a larger and more populated downtown than San Francisco.

The fact that the two metro areas are separated by the Census is evidence that its not "one job market."

San Jose is a larger, wealthier city.

The CSA title puts San Jose in front of San Francisco in the name (San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland) for these reasons.

So even though there is no real data to suggest that San Jose is just a suburb city of San Francisco, the majority of this thread seems to believe it.

[mhays25]

You're smarter than this. Be serious.

[Losfrisco]

It's a shame that on a supposedly data driven site, the sentiment skewing the poll in one direction would appear to be based on "it is because everyone knows it is" logic.

[mhays25]

The existence of numbers doesn't mean the numbers are parallel. Be serious.

[Losfrisco]

Possibility A: the designation of metro areas by the Census is, at best, an outdated way of looking at places, or at worst, a conspiracy to keep San Francisco down.

Possibility B: Maybe, just maybe, paid professionals have a more sophisticated epistemology than "that big blob of lights you see from the airplane" in designating these distinct and separate areas.

I'm going with B.

[mhays25]

The paid professionals in every field EXCEPT the Census Dept. seem to agree. The latter is beholden to a set of inflexible rules that results in an anomaly.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by mhays25

The paid professionals in every field EXCEPT the Census Dept. seem to agree. The latter is beholden to a set of inflexible rules that results in an anomaly.

I think the main thing for both SF/SJ and LA/Riverside is that unlike the East where distinct towns got swallowed up as transport got easier. While the opposite happened in the West. Where as SF/LA grew it slowly became harder and harder to commute to the central city.

So unlike Philly where Wilmington, Atlantic City etc are distinct cultural regions pulled in by commutershrd, The Bay Area is basically one city that got split up by the fact there is a lot of Traffic on 101 now so people don’t want to commute all the way to SF from South Bay.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

I think the main thing for both SF/SJ and LA/Riverside is that unlike the East where distinct towns got swallowed up as transport got easier. While the opposite happened in the West. Where as SF/LA grew it slowly became harder and harder to commute to the central city.

So unlike Philly where Wilmington, Atlantic City etc are distinct cultural regions pulled in by commutershrd, The Bay Area is basically one city that got split up by the fact there is a lot of Traffic on 101 now so people don’t want to commute all the way to SF from South Bay.

Not to keep harping on this, but this is to be believed, then one must also believe that D.C./Baltimore are basically one city. Maybe we need a thread on that or maybe I can find an older one...