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I kind of agree like north of the Thruway isn’t the mid Atlantic but it’s also more distinctly not New England. Which is 6 states period. And you can’t have a region whose biggest city is Saratoga Springs so, it’s in the Mid Atlantic. Even the Catskills, unlike even Northern PA are very much not Appalachia.
Vermont to Upstate is actually a very big cultural transition.
Although not considered part of New England, I feel like many parts of eastern NY are more similar to New England than other region of the country. ADK, Hudson Valley, eastern LI.
There are some differences, but it's tyranny of small differences in my mind. Most of the NY counties bordering NE voted blue in the 2020 election. Parts of rural NH and especially Maine voted deep red.
Very accurate. Where New England excels in quaintness in terms of beach towns, NJ (and the Mid-Atlantic generally) excel in fun and vibrancy. Both have unique and great vibes--just depends on the kind of "escape" you want.
One other point I wanted to make about quaintness, as well, as there have been a couple of posts referencing the appearance of small towns in both regions: small town quaintness is VERY underrated in NY, PA, and NJ. Yes, you'll find more post-industrial scarring in Central PA or Upstate NY. But that being said, I'd absolutely put loads of towns in these three states up against the best quaint towns New England offers (at least as far as non-coastal towns are concerned).
New England certainly isn't uniformly well-off either. Economically depressed neighborhoods and towns/cities contending with disinvestment aren't exactly a foreign phenomenon in the 6-state region, either.
I agree here. Some of my favorite towns are Lambertville (NJ), New Hope, and Doylestown. I spent so much time going to Philadelphia and being severely underwhelmed with the city and we really had no idea places like Bucks County.. well, existed. I am going to be frank, PA needs to do a better job at advertising itself. It really should put more effort in advertising these places + the rural areas out by State College, because they are truly unique.
I used to not like PA at all, I think up until like 1 year ago, it was my least favorite state because I was visiting places in/around Philadelphia. But now I can confidently say the aforementioned cities are just as good as some top New England towns to go to. Once a year I get a house in the Poconos for a weekend too, usually in December with my friends since its affordable and we can go hiking or what not. I'll always defend PA here. But a lot of the flack might come from people visiting Western PA, some old industrial towns and/or some rough parts of Philadelphia, and making the judgement call there. Scranton looks about equivalent to Worcester. It's not that bad. If that is the 'worst city' around the Poconos, then the worst city in NH, is worse. Actually, I would recommend Scranton for a quick stop through if you are in the area. It's actually wild driving through there.
So overall, people don't know about the actual best places in PA to visit. It's not like they are hidden.. they are in plain sight. They actually are great. I cannot speak on Western/Central-Western PA, but Eastern PA is no more industrial than Northern New England. PA should advertise them more because I rather spend a weekend in New Hope/Bucks County/Poconos than a weekend in Mountainous VT (outside Burlington).
Although not considered part of New England, I feel like many parts of eastern NY are more similar to New England than other region of the country. ADK, Hudson Valley, eastern LI.
There are some differences, but it's tyranny of small differences in my mind. Most of the NY counties bordering NE voted blue in the 2020 election. Parts of rural NH and especially Maine voted deep red.
No population of significant size in New England is *deep red*. Coos county, NH’s reddest county was R+8.
Herkimer and Hamilton County in the heart of the Adirondacks were both R+30+. That area has ~40,000 people.
I mean it’s not rural PA but by and large Upstate NY culturally is firmly between New England and PA.
But most importantly every single New England state can trace its existence back to the Mass Bay colony, and New York can’t.
I think we’re just using different terms here. You’re using unspoiled to mean remote and with very little human civilization, which I agree with.
If we’re talking unspoiled as in completely preserved, then it doesn’t really fit that. You’re right that I’ve never been to the North Woods, but based on some limited research tonight, I can see that an overwhelming majority of it has been repeatedly logged over in the last few centuries. Less than 0.1% of Maine’s forests can be classified as old growth.
New York state has had similar problems in that it’s overlogged, but it has more preserved and restored land over the last couple centuries which is why it can better claim to be unspoiled.
That's fair. No, the Northern Maine Woods are not completely preserved whereas the ADK is protected parkland. It's preserved to an extreme extent. So much so that most hiking trails aren't recut the same way they are in the Greens, Whites, etc. which is why so many of them are essentially hikes on exposed rock.
But the Northern Maine Woods are not "over logged" by a long shot. Not being "old growth" doesn't translate to being less wooded/forested. I don't think the average visitor to both places would view Northern Maine's forest as somehow less than. This is exactly the land you're talking about having been logged over repeatedly. It's still dense, expansive, unbroken forest that extends for hundreds of miles with little to no development in between. I don't think anyone would view it as "spoiled." I have 17 acres of forested land in Western Maine that we allow a logging company to cut. Even when it's "fresh cut," it's still pretty densely forested. It's not like they just clear cut acres of land like you see in documentaries about environmental destruction.
So overall, people don't know about the actual best places in PA to visit. It's not like they are hidden.. they are in plain sight. They actually are great. I cannot speak on Western/Central-Western PA, but Eastern PA is no more industrial than Northern New England. PA should advertise them more because I rather spend a weekend in New Hope/Bucks County/Poconos than a weekend in Mountainous VT (outside Burlington).
That's fair. Western PA definitely has a different post-industrial/socioeconomic dynamic overall compared to Eastern PA--no debate there, although there are plenty of gems in that region, as well.
I think due to their size and vast rural (but still semi-populated) areas, states like NY and PA are very underrated for "getting lost" in. They're both loaded with scores of small towns, villages and varied history that you're bound to find so many hidden gems "off the beaten path."
I love "getting lost" in New England, but there's definitely more of a mystique surrounding so many places, if you will, in NY and PA re: small town exploration.
Tbh, New England has more sandy beaches than NJ and most of NY combined. I love NJ’s beaches, but MA really does have a ton of great beaches including white sandy powder beaches to cliff like movie scene beaches. Long Island does too… but not as much as all of New England.
Again, Nantucket has 30+ miles of white sandy beaches alone. Just factor in MV, Cape Cod, South Shore, Rhode Island, Maine, NH, Plum Island etc.
Im not sticking up for since im from there but quite literally millions of people flock to many of these beach destinations, for the beaches. I would agree on some things… but beaches? new England has that in the bag.
NE beaches kinda suck. Way too cold, not nearly enough amenities. I don't go to them at all except for the more "urban beaches". People just come to the cape because of Branding and movies. OTher than that its not a poplar place to go to the beach- no Maine doesn't count because people do everything other than go to the beach first.
Give me any mid atlantic beach all day long. All night ong.
NE beaches kinda suck. Way too cold, not nearly enough amenities. I don't go to them at all except for the more "urban beaches". People just come to the cape because of Branding and movies. OTher than that its not a poplar place to go to the beach- no Maine doesn't count because people do everything other than go to the beach first.
Give me any mid atlantic beach all day long. All night ong.
NE beaches might be less functional than Mid Atlantic beaches but I think it’s hard to argue they aren’t prettier
NE beaches might be less functional than Mid Atlantic beaches but I think it’s hard to argue they aren’t prettier
Of course, i wouldnt argue that.
to me the M-A only wins when it comes to Valleys/meadowspastures and its most pristine urban/suburban towns.
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