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Not in the colloquial conversations for sure. DC was already a larger metro area than Baltimore bye the 1950, as was Cleveland, St. Louis & Pittsburgh.
Not in the colloquial conversations for sure. DC was already a larger metro area than Baltimore bye the 1950, as was Cleveland, St. Louis & Pittsburgh.
Interesting chart.
If you subscribe to the "metro areas are the only thing that have ever mattered throughout human history" thinking that dominates this forum, you can see Los Angeles already took its place in the pecking order by 1950, making its 1990 eclipse of Chicago less meaningful.
So that supports the position that Chicago really hasn't fallen off (L.A. was predicted to pass NYC, passing Chicago was probably seen as inevitable going back to the 1920's). The other cities thinking they are poised to knock Chicago off its perch tend to rely on excessive fixation on MSA/CSA growth.
If you subscribe to the "metro areas are the only thing that have ever mattered throughout human history" thinking that dominates this forum, you can see Los Angeles already took its place in the pecking order by 1950, making its 1990 eclipse of Chicago less meaningful.
So that supports the position that Chicago really hasn't fallen off (L.A. was predicted to pass NYC, passing Chicago was probably seen as inevitable going back to the 1920's). The other cities thinking they are poised to knock Chicago off its perch tend to rely on excessive fixation on MSA/CSA growth.
"Relevance" in colloquial conversation tends to stops and starts with the central city so I get both arguments.
I think with the general tourism boom I think New Orleans. Obviously down from ~1900 when it was a genuine powerhouse. But since 1990? I’d say decently up.
Pittsburgh is the only metro that lost population and is winning the poll.
At the time the population loss began for these cities (1950's), there probably wasn't a lot of discussion about metro areas.
I don’t think that’s true. Cleveland, Hartford, providence and Boston were majority suburban in 1950. (Maybe not suburban but outside the core city). Or Boston college moved to Newton in 1909 but retained “Boston College” as a name.
Cleveland’s Green/Blue line was built explicitly as Light Rail express service for suburban commuters in 1910.
I think in 1900 people didn’t really get how big suburbanization was going to be (as Penn Station almost immediately got crushed by suburban commuters vs intended intercity travelers) but by 1950 “metro areas” were very much a thing.
I don’t think that’s true. Cleveland, Hartford, providence and Boston were majority suburban in 1950. (Maybe not suburban but outside the core city). Or Boston college moved to Newton in 1909 but retained “Boston College” as a name.
Cleveland’s Green/Blue line was built explicitly as Light Rail express service for suburban commuters in 1910.
I think in 1900 people didn’t really get how big suburbanization was going to be (as Penn Station almost immediately got crushed by suburban commuters vs intended intercity travelers) but by 1950 “metro areas” were very much a thing.
Yes, but in terms of people measuring importance at the time, I'm guessing there weren't as many militant "you must consider the entire metro area, the city by itself is meaningless" urbanists then.
Also keep in mind that going into the 20th century, there would have been cities 20 miles away from each other (within today's MSA area) that were still vying against each other for primacy.
Pittsburgh has probably been the biggest example of a growth without growth strategy. It's population continues to slowly decline and yet it has managed to maintain a relatively intact and in parts revitalized core. It can feel a lot more vibrant than it's city pop numbers would indicate. As others have said, Pittsburgh has nonetheless declined in relative importance. It was once a major MSA, now it's more of a mid tier MSA.
It's hard to argue Chicago has grown in prominence. Given how dominant it was for some most of the past 150 years. But I think it has managed to reinvent in self and remain a world class city. While it has probably lost some national prominence. It still remains a grand urban city that is exceeded only by NYC.
Pittsburgh has probably been the biggest example of a growth without growth strategy. It's population continues to slowly decline and yet it has managed to maintain a relatively intact and in parts revitalized core. It can feel a lot more vibrant than it's city pop numbers would indicate. As others have said, Pittsburgh has nonetheless declined in relative importance. It was once a major MSA, now it's more of a mid tier MSA.
It's hard to argue Chicago has grown in population. But I think it has managed to reinvent in self and remain a world class city. While it has probably lost some national prominence. It still remains a grand urban city that is exceeded only by NYC.
Pittsburgh, like Chicago, built the majority of its flagship skyscrapers during population loss. Pittsburgh also built its entire next gen light rail system during the height of its population loss.
I say Chicago really hasn't been displaced in any meaningful way.
It was already a smaller MSA than Los Angeles before population loss started. The "but look at D.C. and the Bay Area" arguments rely on taking entire CSA's and geographic regions beyond the CSA level into account.
We can pretend that Houston and Dallas are challenging it for the sake of discussion,but is anyone really buying that?
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