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^^ Paterson is a cake walk now compared to what it used to be. When I was growing up I played the Paterson schools in sports. It was scary back then in the 80's and 90's. Just watch the movie 'Lean on Me' about "crazy" Joe Clark aka Batman if you haven't already. That's what it used to look like. It was really bad.
It used to have a predominantly African American minority population but as you mentioned the demographics have significantly changed and it's now home to a huge Middle East population. It's the largest Palestinian population in the US I believe. A significant area of the city that borders Clifton is called Little Palestine.
Paterson used to be hardcore Italian back in the day. My friends family is from there and used to run a textile business there (Paterson is the 'Silk City' after all). They used to shut down streets and have a Fresh Produce and Italian Market. I used to go with my friend's family until the late 90's. I think it shut down a few years ago.
One difference about Paterson from the others too is it's geography. It's very hilly, has the Great Falls and Garrett Mountain.
Home of Larry Doby and Hinchliffe Stadium. The last Negro league stadium still standing in the US. I played against Eastside High on the field several times. It was bad back then as it was in serious decay and looked like the Roman coliseum with columns falling apart. They just got a huge grant to upgrade it which is awesome news. The entire city will benefit from it.
The Lou Costello statue from famous Abbott and Costello fame.
Ruben "Hurricane" Carter.
Paterson has some really strong history and solid bones and it would be nice if they could resurrect it. I agree on that. However it's been a blighted, dangerous city for very long. Not nearly as bad as it used to be though so I'm hoping it makes a real comeback. That would be a truly incredible sight.
yeah its better, but its still worse than Newark or Elizabeth in my opinion. Newark is fine.
No, NJ has pretty strict rules on dogs in establishments. There is quite literally no basis to the claim, outside feelings, that NJ is more dog friendly than NC. I am raising a puppy (12 weeks) right now in NJ , and just 3 years ago I did the same in NC. World’s different. Almost every restaurant and brewery were dog friendly and apartments rarely gave fees or restrictions. People were much more dog friendly in NC. In addition, NYC (not nj obviously) is cracking down on these places and dogs. NJ/NYC isnt known to be exactly dog friendly.
In that regard, NC handily. Although, Wildwood, Asbury Park and Hoboken have some dog friendly spots for sure. Love Puppalooza. But NJ definitely has some work to do on that front.
Its funny, the least dog friendly place ive ever been to was surprisingly New Hampshire… which is directly next to the most dog friendly place in the northeast, Massachusetts. New Hampshire pretty much had no dog signs everywhere, cant even hike with them in a lot of the state. Weird.
OK, from what i'm reading, it's the northern part of the state that has issue? Nearer to NYC? I"m in central/south Jersey, next to the Delaware river. Several places allow dogs (outside eating areas at restaurants). and hiking without a dog? I've never even heard of that....
Also, several places near the shore are very dog friendly...
I mean, i don't know that about NC, if they are more dog friendly, that's great. But i certainly don't see NJ as NOT being dog friendly (well at least from where i am)
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by Chriscross309
North Carolina does it for me. Southern charm, left turns, and BBQ. New Jersey can be a headache to navigate through. I will say that NJ has some charming places, but NC is a beautiful state. In one state you have the Outer Banks, Charlotte, and Asheville.
It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison in that way since NC is 7 times greater in land size than NJ (~50K sq. miles versus ~7k sq. miles) While the Outer Banks and Asheville might be in the same state, it would take 7 hours to drive from one to the other (about 450 miles!). You could be in the Berkshires in Massachusetts, the Adirondacks in New York, and the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia from the Jersey Shore in less time than that.
Yes, NC has many beautiful areas, but it is over a vast area and is not necessarily more accessible for people who live within the state than it is for people who live in a smaller state like NJ to access beautiful areas. It's just that sometimes they may go out of state to access things, even though it's close.
Even so, New Jersey has a lot of beauty and a lot to do in a very compact space (beaches, outdoorsy areas, small towns, and access to large cities). One could do a full loop of going to the beach, a big city, a quaint, walkable town, and the mountains/outdoors in one (VERY BUSY!) day from most any town in New Jersey if they really wanted to.
It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison in that way since NC is 7 times greater in land size than NJ (~50K sq. miles versus ~7k sq. miles) While the Outer Banks and Asheville might be in the same state, it would take 7 hours to drive from one to the other (about 450 miles!). You could be in the Berkshires in Massachusetts, the Adirondacks in New York, and the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia from the Jersey Shore in less time than that.
Yes, NC has many beautiful areas, but it is over a vast area and is not necessarily more accessible for people who live within the state than it is for people who live in a smaller state like NJ to access beautiful areas. It's just that sometimes they may go out of state to access things, even though it's close.
Even so, New Jersey has a lot of beauty and a lot to do in a very compact space (beaches, outdoorsy areas, small towns, and access to large cities). One could do a full loop of going to the beach, a big city, a quaint, walkable town, and the mountains/outdoors in one (VERY BUSY!) day from most any town in New Jersey if they really wanted to.
But we aren’t comparing NC with Massachusetts or Upstate NY. That’s like saying that Tijuana is a better place to live than Jacksonville, because it’s a closer drive to San Diego than it is from Jacksonville to Miami.
Besides, there’s plenty of other reasons that I mentioned that North Carolina is superior.
It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison in that way since NC is 7 times greater in land size than NJ (~50K sq. miles versus ~7k sq. miles) While the Outer Banks and Asheville might be in the same state, it would take 7 hours to drive from one to the other (about 450 miles!). You could be in the Berkshires in Massachusetts, the Adirondacks in New York, and the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia from the Jersey Shore in less time than that.
Yes, NC has many beautiful areas, but it is over a vast area and is not necessarily more accessible for people who live within the state than it is for people who live in a smaller state like NJ to access beautiful areas. It's just that sometimes they may go out of state to access things, even though it's close.
Even so, New Jersey has a lot of beauty and a lot to do in a very compact space (beaches, outdoorsy areas, small towns, and access to large cities). One could do a full loop of going to the beach, a big city, a quaint, walkable town, and the mountains/outdoors in one (VERY BUSY!) day from most any town in New Jersey if they really wanted to.
This is the first time I've heard someone refer to NC as vast Of course compared to NJ it is. I've never given any thought about driving 2-3 hours to the beach or the mountains.
I think your list of New Jersey cities is quite varied, and at least a couple of them can compare favorably.
Jersey City is quite nice and it sort of melds into the other nearby cities on the Bergen Neck peninsula to form what's probably one of the premier stretches of walkable, urban areas in the US that's just one tier down from NYC proper (and about on par with the cores of Chicago, SF, Philadelphia, Boston, and DC).
Newark has a reputation that I think is going to take some time to get over, but is in reality much, much improved for its nadir. It's been growing in population and has done so for the last two census counts and the previous one was quite a large percentage growth of 12.4% within some very small city boundaries of 24 square miles. It's for all intents and purposes a bona fide major city that's just overshadowed form being so close to New York City. It's a major corporate center and has all the other trappings of a major city in addition to that corporate presence. Arenas, research universities, major hospitals, performance centers, transportation hubs, etc. There are some bustling, nice parts of Newark that are pretty nice to live in and I think it's a bit of a center for its immediate surrounding region (NJ municipal borders are tiny) including some that are very nice.
Elizabeth, though its own city, sort of ties into Newark a bit as it's much less of a job and retail center. It isn't wealthy, and it's majority working class immigrant. That's not necessarily a bad thing as people are gainfully employed and the city serves as a gateway of sorts, and this shows in that the city has been constantly growing. The small downtown and commercial corridor are kind of more like neighborhood downtowns rather than a corporate center and they're bustling and more so than most in the US.
Paterson is further out from the other two and has a downtown that's a bit like it's in between Newark and Elizabeth. The population is also very working class immigrant heavy and that also means that it's continued to grow and the downtown core and the neighborhood commercial corridors are still very active. This is downtown Paterson, and while it's not wealthy, I'd argue it's actually a fun and interesting place to walk around, and not at all a bad place to be. If a diverse, walkable area that's bustling is a factor in someone's criteria, I'd say that Paterson beats the urban cores of most major cities in the US despite being tiny.
Camden is the odd one out in the bunch. It's out in South Jersey and it's also still going through population collapse. Its downtown and commercial centers will have streets that are pretty quiet like you'd find in "urban centers" in most of the rest of the states.
For myself, because I place a large emphasis on walkable urban areas, I'd prefer to live in parts of the Jersey City / Bergen Neck area, Newark, and Paterson than I would in North Carolina cities. Maybe Elzabeth, and almost certainly not Camden.
I'm with you on Newark: I tell people that if it were located anywhere other than 15 minutes by train from Manhattan, we would be talking about a major metropolitan center in its own right. That city has very strong bones and lots of good things going on. And I'd also say that it has one of the best corporate citizens in the country in The Prudential, which has called the city home since its founding and has doubled down on its investments in it. (You could say its commitment to Newark is solid as a rock. )
But don't knock South Jersey. Camden may still be pulling itself up off the mat, but there are shoots of revival in its downtown, in particular the area around Rutgers-Camden and the Delaware waterfront. And once past Camden, there are a number of communities that are quite nice places, in particular Collingswood and Haddonfield, the latter of which I mentioned above. And South Jersey is where the Garden State's gardens are located — those Jersey blueberries, tomatoes, cranberries and other produce all come from this part of the state. (The Saturday farmers' market in Collingswood, which takes place under the PATCO viaduct from April through November, has been called one of the best in the country.)
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309
But we aren’t comparing NC with Massachusetts or Upstate NY. That’s like saying that Tijuana is a better place to live than Jacksonville, because it’s a closer drive to San Diego than it is from Jacksonville to Miami.
Besides, there’s plenty of other reasons that I mentioned that North Carolina is superior.
The question was "which state would you rather live in?" not "which state is better as a whole?" In the second case then the answer could be very different.
Hypothetically, if I had to drive 4 hours to go to the beach that is in the same state or could drive 1 hour to the beach but it's in a different state, I'd prefer to live where I only have to drive 1 hour to the beach. I don't care which state the beach is in. Ask people who live in Charlotte. Many (or most) go to South Carolina beaches.
Having lived in North Carolina for 13 years, I disagree that it is superior. But there is no right answer to the OP's question. As it was which state would YOU rather live in?
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by Mr BLT
This is the first time I've heard someone refer to NC as vast Of course compared to NJ it is. I've never given any thought about driving 2-3 hours to the beach or the mountains.
It's all about what you're used to. Someone from Kansas would be thrilled to have a 2-3 hour drive to the beach. If you grew up in New Jersey, a 3-hour drive to the beach seems awfully long. Many live an hour or less away.
OK, from what i'm reading, it's the northern part of the state that has issue? Nearer to NYC? I"m in central/south Jersey, next to the Delaware river. Several places allow dogs (outside eating areas at restaurants). and hiking without a dog? I've never even heard of that....
Also, several places near the shore are very dog friendly...
I mean, i don't know that about NC, if they are more dog friendly, that's great. But i certainly don't see NJ as NOT being dog friendly (well at least from where i am)
I agree South Jersey should be separated from North Jersey. South Jersey is superior here.
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Of course compared to NJ it is. I've never given any thought about driving 2-3 hours to the beach or the mountains.
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