Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
None of my comments were Naive, because you never asked me to expound on why i thought NYC was untouchable.
when i described some of your claims as "naive" or "ignorant", i was referring to your comments about LA - for example, when you said "being 'hip' is of utter importance to LA's upper echelon," which i strongly disputed.
Quote:
NYC has variety by quantity. I spend a great deal of time in NYC....in terms of fine dining, it really can't be beat. yes their mid-range restaurants are inconsistent, but their are gems within the thousands of choices.
you may have spent time in nyc, but i lived there for almost my entire life, so forgive me for assuming that i have a more intimate knowledge of the city, its ethnic enclaves, and, as a food lover who eats out multiple times per week, its dining scene.
i have ventured into some of the sketchiest and most remote neighborhoods of the outer boroughs or suburbs for some random ethnic dish that isn't available elsewhere in the region, and at the same time i've eaten at a pretty wide cross-section of mid-to-upper range restaurants as well over the years. so i'm quite aware of nyc's "variety by quantity" and "gems within the thousands of choices".
even with all of that taken into account, nyc still has some serious gaps in its culinary roster.
Quote:
The atmosphere as well, just can't be beat in terms of Urban dining. when i grade a city's Food culture per say..i do it by three 1-10 scale points.
1. Atmosphere.
2. Quality of Food.
3. Service.
The 2nd can make up for a severe lack in the other two, but two strong impressions on atmosphere and service can carry a restaurant less then spectacular menu.
see, we're looking at this from a different perspective.
you care about atmosphere and service. i do not, at least for non-fine dining establishments.
you are bringing other elements into play other than the food, while OTOH all i care about is the food when i assess the merits of a city's eats, at least for the mid-range and cheap spots, which represent the majority of food establishments in any city.
i am 100% with you about nyc being the nation's premier fine dining city, but there's a lot more to a city's food scene than fine dining. and nyc isn't the undisputed #1 when it comes to the mid-range and cheaper/ethnic options.
that said, nyc still might be the #1 food city overall, but it's far from a given.
but i really don't want to make this about nyc. let's agree to disagree on this, since this thread is not about nyc and we can go back and forth on this all day.
Quote:
Publicity does a lot for a city...and their is no question LA has a fantastic marketing firm in Hollywood.
i would actually argue that LA does NOT market its numerous non-hollywood/weather/entertainment amenities as well as it should. just consider how many people on this very forum are completely ignorant about LA's incredible diversity and food, for instance.
I can assure you people in Europe, The Middle East, Colombia and Argentina have some familiarity with Houston, maybe not to the level of LA (and that's only because of the film industry) but it's there.
i would actually argue that LA does NOT market its numerous non-hollywood/weather/entertainment amenities as well as it should. just consider how many people on this very forum are completely ignorant about LA's incredible diversity and food, for instance.
Yeah, LA is downright awful at marketing any of its assets outside of the film industry and weather--and even then it's only pretty damn awful (just think of all the filming that has left...).
When I made my comment about "no comparison between Houston and LA" I was referring to the variety and quality of the entire food scene. I'm personally more interested in the lower end of the spectrum (the discussion was about bbq afterall), and I've only found NYC to be in at all the same league for cheap/ethnic eats.
Pbergen did a really good job of laying out all of the strengths of the vast LA food world. HUM398: I'm willing to say I'm ignorant on the fine dining world since I just don't have the $$$ to know. But there really is no comparing Houston and LA in the world of cheap eats, as LA is in many people's opinions tops in this regard in the US.
Yeah, LA is downright awful at marketing any of its assets outside of the film industry and weather--and even then it's only pretty damn awful (just think of all the filming that has left...).
When I made my comment about "no comparison between Houston and LA" I was referring to the variety and quality of the entire food scene. I'm personally more interested in the lower end of the spectrum (the discussion was about bbq afterall), and I've only found NYC to be in at all the same league for cheap/ethnic eats.
Pbergen did a really good job of laying out all of the strengths of the vast LA food world. HUM398: I'm willing to say I'm ignorant on the fine dining world since I just don't have the $$$ to know. But there really is no comparing Houston and LA in the world of cheap eats, as LA is in many people's opinions tops in this regard in the US.
I will admit a mild ignorance in regard to cheap eats in L.A....mainly because if i am in town, i eat at the mid-range to finer dining.
However, i don't think it is truly fair for you to say that their is no comparing Houston to LA in the world of cheap eats. To present such an argument would be mean you are at least slightly educated on the matter through experience.
I believe Houston to be a premier city in terms of dining, from fine dining to your cheap eats as you put it. However the argument would seem silly if i were to least all the great "cheap eat" places that you have never tried.
One thing (IMO) that makes a city a good "cheap" eat city is diversity and cultural impact. In Houston we don't really have the Ethnic enclaves you have in NYC and to a degree LA. The Metro area is what i would call a multicultural Metro....Variety is definitely there, but it is literally a "Hole in the wall" experiance given that these places can be ANYWHERE. So it makes it hard for visitors to really get a grasp on what this city has to offer.
I don't want to sound like a homer, but the Houston food scene is among the best i have experienced in the world, and i have gotten around. the only problem with Houston, and what really holds it back...is a lack of organization in the structure of the social life.
Like i said previously....LA is a great city, love it actually. However, i love Houston equally if not more so (cause its my home)....and i believe its a great city that offers just as much to its populace in terms of diversity and quality eats.
Honestly, I've only been to Houston once and didn't explore the food scene. You're just the first person I've come across to put Houston on anywhere near the same level as LA in terms of "diversity and quality eats." Since I don't have time to go and get to know every city's food offerings, I depend on journalists and food critics and have yet to see any such claim made in the media.
Maybe Houston is a sleeping giant that has yet to produce its own Jonathan Gold to show the world what it truly has to offer... I really have no idea. I'm aware that Houston has gotten pretty damn diverse in recent decades, but it's still nothing like LA where a number of nationalities have their largest communities outside their home countries here (Iranians, Mexicans, Koreans, Thais, Salvadorans, Vietnamese, Armenian, Cambodian, Peruvian, Guatemalan) as well as a couple which are just the largest communities in the US (Japanese, Filipino, and by some counts, Chinese). When you combine that diversity and scope with both the fresh ingredients/farmers' market tradition and the southern california fast food tradition (including its recent incarnation the food truck), I just don't get how anywhere else could be close for good cheap diverse food except NYC.
If I'm ignorant, please enlighten me with details as you haven't explained what qualities Houston possesses which could account for it being comparable to a much larger, more diverse, more commonly-described-as-"foodie" city.
Also, are there key articles I've missed explaining Houston's food culture?
Here's a great one from our resident food homer Mr. Gold from a recent Saveur issue devoted to Los Angeles:
Now of course, superlatives should never be trusted, but the fact that NYT had a similar take on the LA food scene recently indicates that this place really is special. It's completely possible that the press just hasn't given Houston its due (Angelenos are of course very familiar with having our culture dismissed by East Coast media), so please describe to me if you can the special qualities of the food scene in Houston that would make it comparable. So far you've only explained what makes Houston's food scene easy to overlook--not what makes it great.
And honestly, I'm not trying to put Houston down. I just want people to appreciate how truly amazing LA is in this respect, as we really don't get much respect here for our local culture. I know the same thing is true for Houston, so I feel your pain...
Last edited by dweebo2220; 04-03-2011 at 07:22 PM..
Honestly, I've only been to Houston once and didn't explore the food scene. You're just the first person I've come across to put Houston on anywhere near the same level as LA in terms of "diversity and quality eats." Since I don't have time to go and get to know every city's food offerings, I depend on journalists and food critics
Maybe Houston is a sleeping giant that has yet to produce its own Jonathan Gold to show the world what it truly has to offer... I really have no idea. I'm aware that Houston has gotten pretty damn diverse in recent decades, but it's still nothing like LA where a number of nationalities have their largest communities outside their home countries here (Iranians, Mexicans, Koreans, Thais, Salvadorans, Vietnamese, Armenian, Cambodian, Peruvian, Guatemalan) as well as a couple which are just the largest communities in the US (Japanese, Filipino, and by some counts, Chinese). When you couple that diversity and scope with both the fresh ingredients/farmers' market tradition and the southern california fast food tradition (including its recent incarnation the food truck), I just don't get how anywhere else could be close for good cheap diverse food except NYC.
If I'm ignorant, please enlighten me with details as you haven't explained what qualities Houston possesses which could account for it being comparable to a much larger, more diverse, more commonly-described "foodie" city.
Also, are there key articles I've missed explaining Houston's food culture?
Here's a great one from our resident food homer Mr. Gold from a recent Saveur issue devoted to Los Angeles:
Now of course, superlatives should never be trusted, but the fact that NYT had a similar take on the LA food scene recently indicates that this place really is special. It's completely possible that the press just hasn't given Houston its due (Angelenos are of course very familiar with having our culture dismissed by East Coast media), so please describe to me if you can the special qualities of the food scene in Houston that would make it comparable. So far you've only explained what makes Houston's food scene easy to overlook--not what makes it great.
And honestly, I'm not trying to put Houston down. I just want people to appreciate how truly amazing LA is in this respect, as we really don't get much respect here for our local culture. I know the same thing is true for Houston, so I feel your pain...
No my friend; you're just behind times. Not only has NYT praised Houston's food scene, but it's been ranked on plenty of list within the top 10 best restaurant cities.
Btw, the person who wrote that article lives in LA.
^^ I know that J. Gold is from LA, hence me calling him "our resident food homer."
I'm only talking about cheap food. I would guess Houston has some really great upper-crust dining options (hence making the top 10 lists). I just haven't heard any explanation of how the cheap/ethnic eats could be comparable.
Ok, the message here is "Houston has entered a bold new era." That I can easily believe. It doesn't begin to compare the scene to anywhere else, though, except to say that there's unique seafood, "strange Texas agricultural rhythms (??)" and a lack of zoning which allows for unique dining environments (I'm not mentioning "uncovering the food traditions of the area’s ethnic populations," cause, come on, every great diverse food city does that).
Again though, I'm really just interested in the "cheap/ethnic eats" category.
^^ I know that J. Gold is from LA, hence me calling him "our resident food homer."
I'm only talking about cheap food. I would guess Houston has some really great upper-crust dining options (hence making the top 10 lists). I just haven't heard any explanation of how the cheap/ethnic eats could be comparable.
Honestly, I've only been to Houston once and didn't explore the food scene. You're just the first person I've come across to put Houston on anywhere near the same level as LA in terms of "diversity and quality eats." Since I don't have time to go and get to know every city's food offerings, I depend on journalists and food critics and have yet to see any such claim made in the media.
Maybe Houston is a sleeping giant that has yet to produce its own Jonathan Gold to show the world what it truly has to offer... I really have no idea. I'm aware that Houston has gotten pretty damn diverse in recent decades, but it's still nothing like LA where a number of nationalities have their largest communities outside their home countries here (Iranians, Mexicans, Koreans, Thais, Salvadorans, Vietnamese, Armenian, Cambodian, Peruvian, Guatemalan) as well as a couple which are just the largest communities in the US (Japanese, Filipino, and by some counts, Chinese). When you combine that diversity and scope with both the fresh ingredients/farmers' market tradition and the southern california fast food tradition (including its recent incarnation the food truck), I just don't get how anywhere else could be close for good cheap diverse food except NYC.
If I'm ignorant, please enlighten me with details as you haven't explained what qualities Houston possesses which could account for it being comparable to a much larger, more diverse, more commonly-described "foodie" city.
Also, are there key articles I've missed explaining Houston's food culture?
Here's a great one from our resident food homer Mr. Gold from a recent Saveur issue devoted to Los Angeles:
Now of course, superlatives should never be trusted, but the fact that NYT had a similar take on the LA food scene recently indicates that this place really is special. It's completely possible that the press just hasn't given Houston its due (Angelenos are of course very familiar with having our culture dismissed by East Coast media), so please describe to me if you can the special qualities of the food scene in Houston that would make it comparable. So far you've only explained what makes Houston's food scene easy to overlook--not what makes it great.
And honestly, I'm not trying to put Houston down. I just want people to appreciate how truly amazing LA is in this respect, as we really don't get much respect here for our local culture. I know the same thing is true for Houston, so I feel your pain...
You may not have noticed but they are out there. On A flight to Paris from London a couple of years there was some on flight info thing and they were discussing food in the US and they were featuring the top food places and LA was not among them. The City's featured were NY, Chicago, Houston and New Orleans.
I am not saying that Houston is better, but it is out there as one of the top food cities in the US.
It will be on some lists but not on others. Just because LA is bigger and the media focuses on it because of its celebrities doesn't mean Houston can't match it in certain areas:
I have seen many magazines list Houston among the US great food cities, but then again most major cities would have a good food scene, I don't know why you would think Houston doesn't. Here is how esquire described the food scene here:
7. Houston — Solid, across the board, describes Houston's food scene, from Goode Co. Barbecue to Hugo's Mexican restaurant, from the New Texas Cuisine of Robert Del Grande's RDG + Bar Annie to the opulently grand Italian food at Tony's. Américas pioneered Nuevo Latino cuisine here, and the Vietnamese immigrants, who control the city's seafood industry, have contributed enormously to Houston's vitality.
We have a large variety of food and lots of it. From Tex mex, to Mexican, Vietnamese to Korean, Nigerian to Ethiopian we have quite an array to choose from.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
