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Dude, defensive much. Anyone who disagrees with you is a liar or has never been to SF. For the record, I lived in Chicago for 4 years and am back for work or visiting friends 3-4 times a year. I have also been visiting SF for over 20 years now. My waiting for a cab for over an hour - my phone was juiceless - in the Mission at 11pm happened on a Tuesday night in Feb 2012. And the Mission has not been a dangerous gangland in my living memory, perhaps never. Racist much. It was cold and foggy and I felt like I was in Dubuque. SF is a decent nightlife town, but far from great, and for gay nightlife not nearly as good as one might expect. I disagree with your ranking. For North America:
1. Mexico City (a huge gayborhood in La Zona Rosa), a huge working-class cowboy scene in the Centra Historica.
2. New York. (10-20 years ago, New York would easily have number one, but post Giuliani and rampant gentrification, Manhattan is much tamer, and the Brooklyn/Wlliamsburg scene has not really picked up the slack yet.)
3. LA: hampered by 2am last call, but plenty after hours venues and a great diversity of scenes
4. Chicago: Boystown, Andersonville, Rogers Park, plus a a good black gay scene way further south on Halsted and on the south side on Cottage Grove.
5. NOLA. the best small city nightlife in the U.S. And more 24/7 in certain ways than any of the above.
6. Montreal: Rue St. Catherine is the gayest street in the world.
7. DC. Massively underrated.
8. Toronto: Church and Young not as vibrant and it once was, but Queen St West picking up.
9/10: SF, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Philly can duke it out
There's still some gang activity in the Mission, even after massive gentrification, so in your living memory (20 yrs of visiting right?), yea, it was a major gang territory. Just this year a schoolkid was stabbed to death in broad daylight there (in front of his family at a corner market) by a gangbanger who didn't appreciate him taking a scholarship to a Catholic HS and trying to live a different life. And this is what happens now, when it's pretty much a safe gentrified neighborhood compared to 5-10+ years ago. I thought this was common knowledge.
Full gentrification hasn't even made it to Mission St yet (stopped mostly at Valencia 1 block over, but encroaching). The 16th and Mission BART area has a few development plans that are hugely contentious, as well, and one of the publicized benefits is that it will reduce gang activity/crime at that intersection.
And tell me how it was racist to mention it used to be gang territory and dangerous? Seriously, I want to know.
This is what I mean when I don't think people are honest. They say they visit a place so many times and then say this kind of stuff. Having LIVED there, if it were to take me an hour standing around to get a cab, I would have at least started walking in the direction of my destination, and if you were in the Mission and staying in a hotel in Union Square/DT area, you could have walked there in 30-45...less if power walked (and passed busy intersections and walked down Market where perhaps more cabs were). So this notion of standing around in SF for an hour for a cab (when I personally see cabs everywhere and never have issues myself, and I LIVED there) just makes no sense. Are we to assume you're a little overweight to walk that distance now? I think that's the only excuse left.
And for the record, I've conceded on a couple other threads where I've been called out/wrong.
And might I say if 2012 was the last time you were in SF, you have NO IDEA what that city is like right now. I would say it was still in doldrums/shock then, and is literally cranking right now. Coming from TX, you should understand the concept of cycles and boom/bust, because the Bay Area is definitely a cyclical area. Seems some there prefer the busts and some prefer the booms, but it's basically like two-face, two different cities/areas.
And also, in February it's far more likely to be raining than foggy. Fog is for the summer months, though the Tule fog can very occasionally creep over to the Bay Area from the Central Valley in the Winter (and the Mission is one of the least foggy places in all of SF - from the Mission you see it creep down Mt Davidson/Twin peaks to the north and south). So I still think you're telling a fib here.
Last edited by anonelitist; 10-05-2014 at 11:57 AM..
I notice uber seems more popular in San Francisco than NYC.
It wasn't until recently that an UberX in NYC became cheaper than a yellow cab. I know I certainly made that mistake during a visit earlier in the year.
Uber's hold frankly seems to vary depending on the city. Here in Chicago, Uber is quite popular, but I've also heard that UberX's fairs versus a cab's are far cheaper here than any other city. I *think* I read that in an email that Uber sent out when they were talking about a fair reduction for the Xs.
But yes, overall hailing a cab in SF is much more difficult than it should be granted how highly SF prides itself on being a city where owning a car isn't necessary. Waiting for OWLs and taxis after dark is like waiting for the Messiah.
Just drive your own car! In SF I have taken a cab 1 time in the last five years and that was only because my car was in for service. As for Muni forget it,I would rather walk. It is a fantasy and delusion that owning a car is not necessary in SF,except for a few tourist areas east of Van Ness. Muni is super slow. A 15 minute drive turns into at least an hour+ trip on Muni. The only reason to depend on Muni is if one is in middle school or high school and does not yet have a drivers license.
^^^Well that's all true, but street parking is damm near impossible in much of the city, and the city is clearing out street parking pretty aggressively for bike lanes (and there's the whole street sweeper shuffle you gotta do). Houses with a garage are multi-million $$ these days (or you can find a 1 BR for $800K+, unless it's in the Tenderloin and then it drops down to $450-650K and you worry about break-ins). Apartments with a garage charge $250-350/mo for parking, which is market now. Condos with a garage are all luxe/millionaire pads.
Or you can live way out in the Sunset where I'm sure parking is slightly cheaper/slightly more available, but then you're out in the Sunset (boo).
So the reason everyone hates MUNI is because they *have to* take it (ridership is ridiculously high despite being a god-awful system). Everyone I know who lives in the city and has a car still takes MUNI to work if it's in the financial district, because there is no parking downtown (and the buildings that do offer it charge a small fortune and first come first serve - a quick spot check for any of the subterranean garage levels for the buildings in the financial district reveals mostly $60K++++ cars). Covered spots in South Beach/SoMa are selling on the open market for $80K+. That's parking in San Francisco, so count yourself as fortunate if you can drive everywhere and park easily/middle-classily!
One of my roomies had a car, paid $300/mo to park in a covered spot in our building, and his job required him to be mobile around the whole city (in sales), and he never worked in the FiDi. More of an exception than the rule. He also drove a new Mercedes drop top (i.e. 1%er and a native from Pac Heights at that).
In my time in SF, I also noticed traffic increasing drastically (population has really been going up, as has the daytime population). I got caught in SF traffic in a winter storm/rush hour on a Wed evening once trying to ride out to Tahoe. Took a couple hours just to leave the city and 7+ overall to reach Tahoe (the cluster that is Bush/1st/SoMa/280 in general). I had a rental (never owned a car there and had no problems...owning a car in SF seemed like an absolute hassle!).
First of all, this whole thing sounds like a pretty big exaggeration. For so many reasons I don't care to list. But IF it's at all 100% true, then it's definitely an "extraordinary" circumstance that can happen anywhere. What you describe is most certainly not the norm, so to make it sound like this is the situation people face for hailing cabs is just disingenuous. I lived in SF for years and personally never waited more than 10-15 minutes, and often (usually actually) had no problem hailing within 30-240 seconds. A loud TaxIIII and perhaps a whistle can get their attention pretty damm fast, anywhere. I do see people hailing in SF who really aren't aggressive enough (visitors maybe?). It's a big city with A LOT of visual distraction and taxi drivers are fast/wreckless at times - so you need to catch *their* attention. Similar to anywhere else, you need to be a little crazy. Seems in SF I also see people trying to flag down cars without "Taxi" lit up on front - either they are small town visitors or not used to do this, but that means the taxi's already taken.
Yes. It's all true. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble of SF sounding like the garden of eden.
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You mention the Sunset/Richmond (the Avenues). Aside from 9th/Irving area and Inner Richmond, or biking out there during the day, I avoided those quiet, dark, foggy areas and never lived there. Every city has similar areas where you can expect there to be these kinds of occasional issues. But Market St at 1 AM sounds like either a 1 in a million chance of happening, or a lie/exaggeration. In a city like SF there are too many options/ways around ANY situation, and after an hour and a half you could have walked home and back to wherever you were, so you just wasted time, even if it was raining. I find in the winter, people who live in SF know to always carry a scarf (heck even in the summer!) and water resistant jacket, perhaps a pocket umbrella. It's a city where people can make that fashionable, even for going out, and EVERY bar has a coat check. You sure you lived there?
I lived near USF. So Inner Richmond pretty much. Once again, not lying. Idk why you think I would just enjoy coming here and telling lies. There are reasons as to why I didn't like living there. At 1am in 2010 before the TL started gentrifying. Hell, even today it's scary to walk through at 1am. Try walking through it in 2010 at 1:30am by that point. I lived near USF as I said. So Union Square to USF takes you straight through the worst parts of SF. The whole walk would have been through the ghetto. Nevermind the rain. I wouldn't have done that walk on the one night per year where it's still a comfortable 68* at 1:30am. After paying cover and for expensive drinks, I was not about to pay for coat check every single time. If it was supposed to rain that night, I might have take a coat. If it wasn't supposed to rain, I didn't take a coat. I suffered the cold instead of having over the $5 extra every single time I went out.
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And nobody's claiming MUNI is even close to being sufficient. It's got high forced ridership, but the system sucks really badly. I do believe you when you say the OWLs weren't running as the MUNI drivers are so lazy, unionized, go on strike, fail to run shifts, etc etc.
And it being the OWL that kept me stranded that night for an hour and a half on Market, now you can see why haha. The taxi thing is what shocked me about that night. I moved from LA and had visited NYC a few times before. Yes, also SF before I moved there. So when not a single taxi came by for that long, the whole crowd of us out there was worried there was some apocalyptic catastrophe that happened while inside the club. The more I lived in SF, the more I realized inadequate public transit, including taxis, is the norm. Nothing like that night, but in general waiting longer for a taxi in SF than in Chicago or NYC, and much spottier/slower/delayed buses/trains than either of those as well. For US standards, its public transit is acceptable, but it's by no means enjoyable whatsoever.
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It's just that cabs aren't even 10% as bad as you and a couple other people are making them out to be, probably because of 1-2 bad experiences (when the rest of us get along with them just fine).
What's more realistic is a complaint lodged against cab drivers' attitudes. I find them to be more rude and curt in SF than most other places. That could have been a HUGE driver for creating Uber, as well, since the rideshare apps do try to promote customer service and friendliness.
I think it was a combination of the lack of taxi availability as well as their ineptitude and rudeness. Nearly every time I got in a taxi in SF, I was forced to give my driver directions because he had no idea where anything was. The worst example I remember was my driver didn't know how to get from 6th/Geary to 9th/Irving. Or having to explain how to get from SoMa to 20th/Geary. The streets are literally numbered. In order. It's not that hard. But the wait before the driver's ineptitude even started simply added to the negative experiences of taxis in SF.
As an addition, I did also walk extremely long distances that would rarely or never be required in Chicago or NYC. I've walked from the 40s to near USF. The 30s to USF. 19th/Irving to USF. 22nd/Valencia to 11th/Folsom. Can't even think of anymore right now. The walk from Park Presidio to USF was nearly a weekly occurrence since the OWL wouldn't come. Ever.
The reason I didn't drive, as some other poster suggested, was because I doubt SFPD would appreciate my excuse for getting a DUI as "Sorry, Officer, but MUNI was just taking way too long so I decided to drive drunk instead!" A simple 15 minute trip by car for some (subpar by SoCal standards) tacos in the Mission or the best sandwiches on the face of the earth at Ike's could be well over an hour long trek thanks to slow buses and disgustingly long transfer times. I'm just lucky I have extremely good luck with parking. My friends that drove with me were always amazed at how quickly I could find spots in the Mission and Castro. LA's public transit sucks, but at least driving is (somewhat) easier. Growing up in LA, the traffic wasn't nearly as bad so it made it easy to get places really quickly. But LA is now like SF with inadequate public transit hellishly combined with gridlocked traffic, a serious lack of street parking, and parking garages that require your first born as payment.
Yea, I don't get why everyone has to be lying about SF either. Taxis and mass transit there was certainly not great. Better than the vast majority of other US cities? Sure, but that's a pretty low bar, and especially low for a city/area with such aspirations.
These 2 regions are a bit different demographically speaking.
Non-Hispanic White Population, 2013
50% or less in Red Chicago CSA Counties
La Salle, IL 87.2%
Porter, IN 84.6%
Mc Henry, IL 82.6%
LaPorte, IN 80.5%
DeKalb, IL 78.4%
Kenosha, WI 77.1%
Kankakee, IL 72.7%
DuPage, IL 68.8%
Will, IL 65.8%
Lake, IL 63.8%
Kane, IL 58.3%
Lake, IN 54.8%
Kendall, IL N/A Cook, IL 43.2%
Bay Area CSA Counties
Marin, CA 72.0%
Sonoma, CA 64.8%
Santa Cruz, CA 58.3%
Napa, CA 54.5% Contra Costa, CA 46.2%
San Francisco, CA 41.4%
San Mateo, CA 40.7%
Solano, CA 40.0%
San Benito, CA 36.2%
San Joaquin, CA 34.6%
Santa Clara CA 33.8%
Alameda, CA 33.1%
These 2 regions are a bit different demographically speaking.
Non-Hispanic White Population, 2013
50% or less in Red Chicago CSA Counties
La Salle, IL 87.2%
Porter, IN 84.6%
Mc Henry, IL 82.6%
LaPorte, IN 80.5%
DeKalb, IL 78.4%
Kenosha, WI 77.1%
Kankakee, IL 72.7%
DuPage, IL 68.8%
Will, IL 65.8%
Lake, IL 63.8%
Kane, IL 58.3%
Lake, IN 54.8%
Kendall, IL N/A Cook, IL 43.2%
Bay Area CSA Counties
Marin, CA 72.0%
Sonoma, CA 64.8%
Santa Cruz, CA 58.3%
Napa, CA 54.5% Contra Costa, CA 46.2%
San Francisco, CA 41.4%
San Mateo, CA 40.7%
Solano, CA 40.0%
San Benito, CA 36.2%
San Joaquin, CA 34.6%
Santa Clara CA 33.8%
Alameda, CA 33.1%
Sounds great! One thing to mention is that Cook County is about half the population of the entire Chicago CSA.
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