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Yea my bad on that one...poor choice of words on my part. I meant in terms of ridership. When it comes to non-CR length, Philly actually has Boston beat pretty well:
Heavy & Light Rail system length:
Boston: 64 miles
Philadelphia: 105.1 miles
Commuter Rail:
Boston: 432
Philadelphia: 385.1
If you include NJ Transit, Philadelphia probably beats Boston relatively handily when it comes to overall system track length.
never knew the track miles thanks for sharing assumed they were similar; not sure if you included the PATCO HR line either but either way Philly has a system that sadly is under utilized in the relative sense
Septa has 13 CR lines and 153 stations
MBTA has 13 CR lines and 137 stations
well at least according to wiki if close shows even more that SEPTA has under used capacity
never knew the track miles thanks for sharing assumed they were similar; not sure if you included the PATCO HR line either but either way Philly has a system that sadly is under utilized in the relative sense
Septa has 13 CR lines and 153 stations
MBTA has 13 CR lines and 137 stations
well at least according to wiki if close shows even more that SEPTA has under used capacity
Yea, why is that? For example, Philadelphia's light rail & trolley system is 68.4 miles long, 4 miles longer than Boston's light & heavy rail combined, but gets less than half the ridership (222,000 per day vs 105,500 per day). It seems like the coverage is there...is there just less of a culture of riding rail transit there?
This may be true for Boston too (and most American cities outside NYC) but there used to be *somewhat* of a stigma attached with taking the bus/subway 10-20 years ago or so.
There are so many Philly forumers on this board and so few Boston forumers that polls and comments are rather skewed in favor of Philly. Not to say it isn't a great city but Philly was in the doldrums until the past 10 or 15 years while Boston has been on a positive trend since the 1950s and was already growing and fairly gentrified in the 1980s. Boston is now growing faster than it has in many decades in terms of population, building, business... Boston and Philly are very similar sized cities in a 134sqmi footprint (Philly's land area), but Boston has a beautiful ocean front location, is the center of its region, more global presence and virtually none of the decay and poverty like one sees in the city of Philadelphia or Chester or Camden. Philly may be more funky but it needs decades to catch Boston many levels. Philly is moving ahead rapidly now and that is exciting for lots of people especially those from Philly. I write this as my opinion of the truth and in no way to offend anyone, but Philly has a ways to go to be one the level of cities like Boston and SF.
Yea, why is that? For example, Philadelphia's light rail & trolley system is 68.4 miles long, 4 miles longer than Boston's light & heavy rail combined, but gets less than half the ridership (222,000 per day vs 105,500 per day). It seems like the coverage is there...is there just less of a culture of riding rail transit there?
the green lines are much better functionally IMHO and faster (well accept in the tunnels)
to me the green line in Boston is more like a HR in many ways
The trolley lines in philly may be more like buses on rail in many ways
Philly did away with some of the more utilized trolley lines with buses. Like the 23 which was 23 miles of trolley and more widely used actually
to me the biggest reason for lower ridership on the whole is number of jobs in the core where Boston excels in this comparison
There are so many Philly forumers on this board and so few Boston forumers that polls and comments are rather skewed in favor of Philly. Not to say it isn't a great city but Philly was in the doldrums until the past 10 or 15 years while Boston has been on a positive trend since the 1950s and was already growing and fairly gentrified in the 1980s. Boston is now growing faster than it has in many decades in terms of population, building, business... Boston and Philly are very similar sized cities in a 134sqmi footprint (Philly's land area), but Boston has a beautiful ocean front location, is the center of its region, more global presence and virtually none of the decay and poverty like one sees in the city of Philadelphia or Chester or Camden. Philly may be more funky but it needs decades to catch Boston many levels. Philly is moving ahead rapidly now and that is exciting for lots of people especially those from Philly. I write this as my opinion of the truth and in no way to offend anyone, but Philly has a ways to go to be one the level of cities like Boston and SF.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think your timeframe is skewed for Boston.
As a percentage Boston actually lost MORE people than Philly since 1950. During the 1980's Southie was still very poor. All Souls was a great book about an Irish-American family growing up in the projects of Southie during the '80s-it was a shocking narrative.
I agree, that's probably the biggest reason. Not enough jobs at the core, which affects the overall ridership.
I think the number of college students makes a big difference as well. If you look at a map, Boston's Green B directly serves both Boston College & Boston University. The Green E serves Northeastern directly. There's also the other schools in the center of the city like Berklee, Emerson, Suffolk, etc. which are in areas too expensive to live in for most college students, so they'll live in an area like Mission Hill or Allston/Brighton and then take the subway into the city.
I expect this ridership to jump by a good amount once the Green Line extension (currently U/C) is completed. There are two lines, one going to Union Square in Somerville/Cambridge (completion 2017) and then another which will extend all the way up to Tufts University (completion 2020). This small extension (should only cover another 2.5 square miles) will give more than an estimated 65,000 people rail access into the city. It wouldn't be outrageous to expect light rail ridership to jump from roughly 220,000/day to 300,000+/day by 2020.
I don't think service of rail transit to colleges i all that different maybe slightly but many colleges are served very well in North Philly, West Philly, U City, even the main line but there may be some subtle differences I think core jobs would be a larger relative difference based o my understanding and experience with the two cities
both cities do have large college populations and large campuses
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