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Old 12-08-2009, 06:16 AM
 
7,076 posts, read 12,345,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
The continuos built up area of Kansas City is 1.4 million people in 580 square miles with a density of 2300 per square mile.

The continuos built up area of Charlotte is 750,000 people in 435 square miles with a density of 1700 per square mile.
KCMO, here is the problem with your stats and logic. The numbers you posted are from nearly 10 years ago. Today (as of 2009), the 580 sq/mi area surrounding uptown Charlotte has 1 million people. The 580 sq/mi area surrounding downtown KC has not grown much in the last 10 years. Also, KC and Lee's Summit are the ONLY two urbanized areas in KC's MSA. The combined UAs of KC and Lee's Summit have about 1.5 million people.

Charlotte, on the other hand, is one of four urbanized areas within its own MSA. The other UAs in metro Charlotte are Gastonia NC, Concord NC, and Rock Hill SC. These four combined UAs had a population of 1.1 million back in 2000. Today, the population of these four are close to 1.4 million.

I mentioned these four UAs because few folks realize that Charlotte has "ring cities" that are only 5 to 10 miles outside of Charlotte's main UA. The construction of I-485 (the freeway loop around Charlotte) will cause fringe development that will eventually bridge the current gap between Charlotte and those "ring cities". Once this happens (which will not be very long at all), Charlotte's UA will swell beyond the likes of KC seemingly overnight.

Also, regardless of MSA and CSA stats, Charlotte has more people than KC in its general area. This has helped Charlotte have a larger GDP and a larger CSA than KC. No one is taking anything away from KC's urbanity and charm. Just know that Charlotte competes with KC where it counts the most.

Last edited by urbancharlotte; 12-08-2009 at 06:41 AM..
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:14 AM
 
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I was about to add in that the urban area post are a little oudated. I am not sure what KC urban area is but I do know that Charlotte is approaching 1 million.

But back to other areas, another city I wonder would be considered major is Columbus. I also haven't heard too much mention of Sacramento either.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:56 AM
 
1,211 posts, read 2,675,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
KCMO, here is the problem with your stats and logic. The numbers you posted are from nearly 10 years ago. Today (as of 2009), the 580 sq/mi area surrounding uptown Charlotte has 1 million people. The 580 sq/mi area surrounding downtown KC has not grown much in the last 10 years. Also, KC and Lee's Summit are the ONLY two urbanized areas in KC's MSA. The combined UAs of KC and Lee's Summit have about 1.5 million people.

Charlotte, on the other hand, is one of four urbanized areas within its own MSA. The other UAs in metro Charlotte are Gastonia NC, Concord NC, and Rock Hill SC. These four combined UAs had a population of 1.1 million back in 2000. Today, the population of these four are close to 1.4 million.

I mentioned these four UAs because few folks realize that Charlotte has "ring cities" that are only 5 to 10 miles outside of Charlotte's main UA. The construction of I-485 (the freeway loop around Charlotte) will cause fringe development that will eventually bridge the current gap between Charlotte and those "ring cities". Once this happens (which will not be very long at all), Charlotte's UA will swell beyond the likes of KC seemingly overnight.

Also, regardless of MSA and CSA stats, Charlotte has more people than KC in its general area. This has helped Charlotte have a larger GDP and a larger CSA than KC. No one is taking anything away from KC's urbanity and charm. Just know that Charlotte competes with KC where it counts the most.
Did you see those pics of KC? You can manipulate and switch numbers around all you want, but KC is a real urban city. Charlotte has a few urban like characteristics, but they don't dominate the entire city of Charlotte. Not by a long shot!

I guess this is expected from a guy who thinks Charlotte in the same league as Baltimore.

Last edited by CaseyB; 12-09-2009 at 05:04 AM.. Reason: rude
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.m View Post
Man please. What are you blind? Did you see those pics of KC? You can manipulate and switch numbers around all you want, but KC is a real urban city. Charlotte has a few urban like characteristics, but they don't dominate the entire city of Charlotte. Not by a long shot!

I guess this is expected from a guy who thinks Charlotte in the same league as Baltimore.
Um, like I said. No one is taking anything away from KC's urbanity and charm. However, urbanity and charm alone just doesn't cut it anymore when it comes to "major city" status. Economically (GDP), cities like Charlotte compete toe to toe with the likes of St. Louis and Pittsburgh. Coincidentally, the skyline and pro-sports options of Charlotte compete with these older urban cities as well. Get over it. Raleigh just ain't there yet.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post

Also, Charlotte's metro area is quickly approaching 2.4 million. KC is 2 million even.

Charlotte | Emporis.com
Kansas City | Emporis.com

Keep in mind that KC's 2 million metro has nearly 8,000 sq/mi of land. Charlotte's metro of nearly 2.4 million has 6,500 sq/mi of land.

Being that Charlotte is builing light rail transit and high rise condo towers (30 floors tall or better) faster than KC, it is safe to say that Charlotte is on its way to being "more major" than KC (in MANY ways, Charlotte already is "more major"). Even Charlotte's UA (urbanized area) is quickly catching up to older cities like KC. In all honesty, KC benefits from being an older city when it comes to having MLB. Today, KC would NEVER be considered for MLB over cities like Charlotte.
The population stats for Charlotte you are using are not the Metro area...

From:
Charlotte, North Carolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Charlotte metropolitan area had a population of 1,701,799.[2] The Charlotte metropolitan area is part of a wider thirteen-county labor market region or combined statistical area that has an estimated population of 2,338,289.


Kansas City metro is 2,053,928... however it doesn't include places like St. Joe and Lawerence, KS, etc... adding those changes the population much the same way Charlottes "wider thirteen-country labor market region" does..

KC has been expanding and building downtown... P&L District, Performing arts center, way more lofts and apartments then I can count... but it's not doing much in the line of skyscrapers, there are a couple planned but have been slowed by the recession.... KC already has height and a massive downtown compared to most other cities (obviously not compared to say NYC and Chicago)... it's focus isn't really on skyscrapers... compared with Charlotte, whos while downtown is nice, looks very tiny in comparison, so you know I can see why they would want to build up their size...

But yeah... KC should have light rail... to bad GM ever tore down the massive streetcar system KC used to have.

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Old 12-08-2009, 01:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skrizzle View Post
The population stats for Charlotte you are using are not the Metro area...

From:
Charlotte, North Carolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Charlotte metropolitan area had a population of 1,701,799.[2] The Charlotte metropolitan area is part of a wider thirteen-county labor market region or combined statistical area that has an estimated population of 2,338,289.


Kansas City metro is 2,053,928... however it doesn't include places like St. Joe and Lawerence, KS, etc... adding those changes the population much the same way Charlottes "wider thirteen-country labor market region" does..

KC has been expanding and building downtown... P&L District, Performing arts center, way more lofts and apartments then I can count... but it's not doing much in the line of skyscrapers, there are a couple planned but have been slowed by the recession.... KC already has height and a massive downtown compared to most other cities (obviously not compared to say NYC and Chicago)... it's focus isn't really on skyscrapers... compared with Charlotte, whos while downtown is nice, looks very tiny in comparison, so you know I can see why they would want to build up their size...

But yeah... KC should have light rail... to bad GM ever tore down the massive streetcar system KC used to have.
All of what you said is true. However, look up the land area of KC's 2 million and compare it to the land area of Charlotte's 1.7 million. If you did this, you would see that you are comparing 8,000 sq/mi to less than 3,100 sq/mi. Even Charlotte's 13 county labor market is still 1,500 sq/mi short of KC's MSA. Look at the numbers, and you will see that Charlotte (while having a "smaller" MSA population) is the center of a more populated region. Again, this is NOT to take anything away from KC's urbanity and charm. Just know that Charlotte (the region) is larger by many stats.
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
All of what you said is true. However, look up the land area of KC's 2 million and compare it to the land area of Charlotte's 1.7 million. If you did this, you would see that you are comparing 8,000 sq/mi to less than 3,100 sq/mi. Charlotte 13 county labor market is still 1,500 sq/mi short of KC's MSA. Look at the numbers, and you will see that Charlotte (while having a "smaller" MSA population) is the center of a more populated region. Again, this is NOT to take anything away from KC's urbanity and charm. Just know that Charlotte (the region) is larger by many stats.

You're right. However take this for instance. Hampton Roads and the Triangle/RDU share a lot of traits. On paper the Triangle would seem to be the same size as Hampton Roads. However Hampton Roads has been a pretty large area for decades vs the Triangle. Therefore Hampton Roads has had plenty of time to establish itself so far as infrastructure, culture, density, attractions, history, charm, music, notoriety, and grit. The same traits KC has over Charlotte. Those are the typical characteristics cities have been known for, for thousands of years. GDP, bus ridership, and CSA square mileage is not what comes to mind for most people when they think of large established cities.
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.m View Post
You're right. However take this for instance. Hampton Roads and the Triangle/RDU share a lot of traits. On paper the Triangle would seem to be the same size as Hampton Roads. However Hampton Roads has been a pretty large area for decades vs the Triangle. Therefore Hampton Roads has had plenty of time to establish itself so far as infrastructure, culture, density, attractions, history, charm, music, notoriety, and grit. The same traits KC has over Charlotte. Those are the typical characteristics cities have been known for, for thousands of years. GDP, bus ridership, and CSA square mileage is not what comes to mind for most people when they think of large established cities.
Unfortunately, this is NOT a thread about "established" cities. It is a thread about cities that are "evolving into being major". In 10 to 15 years, which city (KC or Charlotte) would you say has evolved into being more "major" of the two?
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Unfortunately, this is NOT a thread about "established" cities. It is a thread about cities that are "evolving into being major". In 10 to 15 years, which city (KC or Charlotte) would you say has evolved into being more "major" of the two?

Then stop insinuating Charlotte has evolved into one already... Kansas City has been a major city for decades, not the past 1-2 years.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:09 PM
 
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Kansas City was a major city long before Charlotte was even on the radar. Its role has changed, however, and now both Charlotte and Kansas City are major cities in a sense that they are important on a regional level. IMO, they are both tier 5 cities / metro areas with Charlotte being near the top and Kansas City being somewhere in the middle.

Tier 1
New York City

Tier 2
Los Angeles
Washington D.C.
Chicago

Tier 3
San Francisco
Houston
Boston
Philadelphia
Dallas
Atlanta
Miami

Tier 4
Seattle
San Jose
Detroit
Minneapolis
Denver
San Diego
Pittsburgh

Tier 5
St. Louis
Phoenix
Charlotte
Cleveland
Las Vegas
Kansas City
Cincinnati
Portland
Tampa
Sacramento

Last edited by BlackOut; 12-08-2009 at 02:27 PM..
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