Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The city I returned to in 2006 was much livelier than the one I left for college and for good in 1976, and the one I visited in 2014 and 2016 even livelier still.
Oddly enough, the only part of town that felt moribund to me was downtown, once you left the immediate vicinity of the Power & Light District. The Crossroads, the old warehouse and light industrial district just south of the Downtown Loop, had pretty much soaked up the rest of the downtown energy.
The loop has finished several huge office-to-apartment conversions like the Power & Light Building, Commerce Bank, 10 Main, Trader's on Grand and much more.
But I agree, the Crossroads Art District has blown up with construction and new retail. There are 7-10 huge projects that are making the south side of downtown the most active. The City Market on the north side has also added thousands of new apartments.
Currently there is the new Loews Convention Hotel being built at 16th & Baltimore (800+ rooms). The Hampton Hotel at 16th & Main and Arterra apartments at 20th & Wyandotte. The new Childrens Mercy Tower has a crane up on Hospital Hill east of Crown Center. Too many to list apartment and hotel buildings have finished and 2 huge new apartment complexes are about to begin construction at 18th & Broadway and 19th & Main.
Downtown KC and it's neighborhoods have built and/or are adding 5946 new apartment units built/planned Downtown over the last 3 years.
IMO STL feels like a larger metro, but the urban cores of both cities are very similar.
Urban KC has more and better mid and high rise architecture
Which is "better" is totally subjective, but just curious where you get the notion that KC has more mid/highrises than STL? Because that's categorically false. St. Louis has more, if not a lot more. KC's may be taller on average, but St. Louis has more. Emporis or some other building stat site can affirm this.
Which is "better" is totally subjective, but just curious where you get the notion that KC has more mid/highrises than STL? Because that's categorically false. St. Louis has more, if not a lot more. KC's may be taller on average, but St. Louis has more. Emporis or some other building stat site can affirm this.
No, I don't think so. And if some website lists a few more for StL than it's most likely very old information.
KC certainly feels like it has more and better mid and high-rises then StL.
And certainly many, many more newer mid and high-rises.
KC just has a much newer and architecturally superior urban core and that gap will only widen as KC has so much more development, new apartments and twice a many residents downtown than StL does.
No, I don't think so. And if some website lists a few more for StL than it's most likely very old information.
KC certainly feels like it has more and better mid and high-rises then StL.
And certainly many, many more newer mid and high-rises.
KC just has a much newer and architecturally superior urban core and that gap will only widen as KC has so much more development, new apartments and twice a many residents downtown than StL does.
Whether to you KC "feels" like it has more highrises and midrises than STL, the empirical fact is that you're absolutely wrong. Yeah KC is younger and doing a little better economically than STL, but you are sounding a bit delusional when you inflate numbers to make it sound like KC is some kind of boom town while STL just sleeps. First of all, STL has a MUCH MUCH MUCH larger building stock than KC, and the vast majority of that inventory is comprised of historic buildings, which are constantly being rehabbed left and right all over the City of St. Louis. For that reason, demand is naturally lower for new construction in St. Louis because formerly vacant buildings are absorbing a lot of the market. Yes KC is growing faster, happy?
But despite that, the tallest residential tower ever built in St. Louis City is currently under construction in the CWE right now, btw.
Would you mind sharing your sources for your information? I'll post mine (nevermind the votes at the top of this thread):
Kansas City (city proper)
Building types (existing)
No. Type
355 low-rise building
178 high-rise building
20 skyscraper
"Twice as many residents downtown"?? That's because what KC officially considers "downtown" covers 6.23 square miles vs. STL's official downtown boundaries of only 1.01 sq. miles. So saying KC has "twice as many residents downtown" in more than 5 times the physical area is not that impressive, and I would bet if STL's downtown boundaries were stretched to match KC's, it would have a LOT more than double the population of KC in the same physical area. This is a simple calculation that anyone can make by pulling census tract data. Again, if you have some objective and credible information that you're relying on for your info, please share! And if it's just based on perception, then it should be noted that the overwhelming majority of voters in this thread disagree with your "feelings."
No need to be hateful or jealous. I'm just stating my opinion. Right out of the gate though your "website" Emporis has old and worthless information. Downtown KC (alone) has 4 tower cranes up now and will have 3-4 more by summer if the Three Light tower starts. The Plaza also has a 14 story that began construction. There is far more new construction and far more planned in KC than StL.
I don't trust websites, especially those that are outdated and usually updated by local homers. Downtown KC does have twice as many residents as dt StL - that is a fact. And IMO the urban core of KC is newer and far more architecturally superior. StL is stagnant, KC has passed StL in every way.
"Twice as many residents downtown"?? That's because what KC officially considers "downtown" covers 6.23 square miles vs. STL's official downtown boundaries of only 1.01 sq. miles. So saying KC has "twice as many residents downtown" in more than 5 times the physical area is not that impressive, and I would bet if STL's downtown boundaries were stretched to match KC's, it would have a LOT more than double the population of KC in the same physical area. This is a simple calculation that anyone can make by pulling census tract data. Again, if you have some objective and credible information that you're relying on for your info, please share! And if it's just based on perception, then it should be noted that the overwhelming majority of voters in this thread disagree with your "feelings."
"1.01 sq miles" is barely 10 sq blocks
Fail.
StL city Govt has to fight the census and every population estimate every year, so there's no way to trust any numbers that come out of StL. The downtown boosters "estimate" that there are 14,000 residents - but give no proof or evidence, that's a nice round number!
Downtown KC has twice as many residents in the same amount of sq miles as downtown StL; about 3 sq miles. And downtown KC has added or has nearly 6000 new apartment units built or under construction in the last 2 years. After everything under construction is built KC estimates it's downtown population will reach over 30,000 residents.
No need to be hateful or jealous. I'm just stating my opinion. Right out of the gate though your "website" Emporis has old and worthless information. Downtown KC (alone) has 4 tower cranes up now and will have 3-4 more by summer if the Three Light tower starts. The Plaza also has a 14 story that began construction. There is far more new construction and far more planned in KC than StL.
I don't trust websites, especially those that are outdated and usually updated by local homers. Downtown KC does have twice as many residents as dt StL - that is a fact. And IMO the urban core of KC is newer and far more architecturally superior. StL is stagnant, KC has passed StL in every way.
Just so you know, what you write here is an inaccurate description of Emporis, which is a company that collects data on construction projects worldwide and sells it to construction companies and develoipers.
And putting "website" in sneer quotes before its name is likewise inaccurate, as it's a private, for-profit company. They charge - handsomely - for their research reports. You can access their database for free, but if you want to use their data for your business, you have to pay them.
The company's based in Hamburg, Germany. It's regarded as the single most comprehensive database of information on buildings, construction projects and construction companies in the world.
StL city Govt has to fight the census and every population estimate every year, so there's no way to trust any numbers that come out of StL. The downtown boosters "estimate" that there are 14,000 residents - but give no proof or evidence, that's a nice round number!
Downtown KC has twice as many residents in the same amount of sq miles as downtown StL; about 3 sq miles. And downtown KC has added or has nearly 6000 new apartment units built or under construction in the last 2 years. After everything under construction is built KC estimates it's downtown population will reach over 30,000 residents.
All I asked for were links to sources of your data, because you called out STL sites for having "boosters" 'estimate' a certain population, yet you somehow think KC sources would be any different? Just post your sources from where you derive your facts, that's all. You may be 100% right or you could be relying on subjective and faulty data (as you've accused me of doing). Just post the links because so far my "faulty" data is more credible than your non-existent data.
I'll even make it easy for you. How about using the SAME resource for each city? Below is the most recent, locally monitored and constantly updated resource out there for each city. I hate to break it to you, but it actually looks like STL City has more development activity than KC proper, although I didn't count. But at first glance there is certainly no way that "KC surpasses STL by huge margins".....
The thread title is "Which city feels larger, ...?
Not which city is larger
Very Subjective discussion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
