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Why are you using that 10,000 square miles for Philadelphia though? Houston has a reason for it due to the metro's flat sprawling urban form with no other large cities in its area. Philadelphia obviously has a different regional context around it where blithely taking those 10,000 square miles around the city makes far less sense.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-03-2010 at 10:13 PM..
In the 10,000 sq mi surrounding Houston there are approx 6 M people. In the 10,000 sq mi surrounding Philly there are probably 11M-12M people. 6 M in Philly metro(4900 sq mi), another 3M that should be included in Philly metro if it were given similar metro criteria as its peers, the other 2M-3M are in Central + Coastal jersey which rightfully are not part of metro Philly but are part of a continuous intermetropolitan region nonetheless.
The Philaldephia region is every bit of a draw as Houston. the only difference I see is that the counties in Houston are 2x as large allowing Houston 2x the land area of Philadelphia. Remove the N W county lines of Chester,Montgomery,Bucks Counties,New Castle Counties and Phillys metro baloons to about 9M and is still smaller than Houstons geographical metro area.
Why do you keep arguing this? Its been explained to you over and over again.
Houston isn't sprawled out for nothing; Houston influences a larger urban area than Philadelphia. Philly is too close to NYC.
You can keep arguing this all you want, but it doesn't help your point in any type of way of trying to prove why Philly should be ranked in the top 5.
Why do you keep arguing this? Its been explained to you over and over again.
Houston isn't sprawled out for nothing; Houston influences a larger urban area than Philadelphia. Philly is too close to NYC.
You can keep arguing this all you want, but it doesn't help your point in any type of way of trying to prove why Philly should be ranked in the top 5.
You nor anyone else has explained nothing to me other than your/their point of view.Dont confuse your misconceived beliefs with facts.
You obviously know very little about the Philly-NYC metro. I never once mentioned NYC infringing into Philadelphia metro territory. Most of my argument is with Philadlephias micro regions that are associated with Philadlephia and included in their TV market yet not ncluded in Philly metro. Philaldephia gets the short end of the stick in this department in regards to its peers. The Trenton metro fiasco is so blatantly incorrect that anyone with knowledge of the situation would not even question it.
And to say Houston has bigger pull on its region than Philly has on its region is absolutely preposterous.Philadelphia has been a top 5 metro since day 1 of this countrys existence.
I'll try this 1 more time.
Houston 6M people 10,000 sq mi.
Philadlephia 6M people 4900 sq mi.
Remove the imaginary county lines and Philadelphia is 9M at 10,000 sq miles without infringing an inch into NYC metro.
You nor anyone else has explained nothing to me other than your/their point of view.Dont confuse your misconceived beliefs with facts.
You obviously know very little about the Philly-NYC metro. I never once mentioned NYC infringing into Philadelphia metro territory. Most of my argument is with Philadlephias micro regions that are associated with Philadlephia and included in their TV market yet not ncluded in Philly metro. Philaldephia gets the short end of the stick in this department in regards to its peers. The Trenton metro fiasco is so blatantly incorrect that anyone with knowledge of the situation would not even question it.
And to say Houston has bigger pull on its region than Philly has on its region is absolutely preposterous.Philadelphia has been a top 5 metro since day 1 of this countrys existence.
I'll try this 1 more time.
Houston 6M people 10,000 sq mi.
Philadlephia 6M people 4900 sq mi.
What is this proving???
Remove the imaginary county lines and Philadelphia is 9M at 10,000 sq miles without infringing an inch into NYC metro.
Trust me. The closest major city near Houston is 4 hours way; it has PLENTY of pull. Your just throwing out irelevant square milages, but have failed to prove why Philadelphia should be considered in this poll.
I don't know how many times this must be said but most people do not live on those 10,000 square miles of the Houston metro area. Many of it is straight swamp or forested. There is still loads of land in every county with maybe the exception of Galveston County in the Houston metro area. Harris County itself has a great amount of undeveloped land.
It is also about influence and commuter stats. I don't know how many times we have to say this. But if the Allentown or Reading area does not meet the threshold of 25%, it will not count to Philadelphia, period. Your issue is not with Houston. It's with census and their designation. Houston also does indeed have a very large pull in it's area. You're looking at Galveston city to Houston city but you must realize that there are other cities in the Galveston county that are closer to the city of Houston and the majority of those residents commute to the main employment areas within the city everyday.
I don't know how many times this must be said but most people do not live on those 10,000 square miles of the Houston metro area. Many of it is straight swamp or forested. There is still loads of land in every county with maybe the exception of Galveston County in the Houston metro area. Harris County itself has a great amount of undeveloped land.
It is also about influence and commuter stats. I don't know how many times we have to say this. But if the Allentown or Reading area does not meet the threshold of 25%, it will not count to Philadelphia, period. Your issue is not with Houston. It's with census and their designation. Houston also does indeed have a very large pull in it's area. You're looking at Galveston city to Houston city but you must realize that there are other cities in the Galveston county that are closer to the city of Houston and the majority of those residents commute to the main employment areas within the city everyday.
I tried pointing this out as well. The fact still remains, if we hypothetically made their land areas similiar, would Phily make up the nearly $100 billion dollars it is behind? IMO, it may come close but I highlydoubt it. Trenton's GDP is around $22 billion I think, which is the largest MSA close to Philly, I think but I'm not sure.
Perhaps it is blatantly obvious that Phily is number 4 and Houston 5.
if we hypothetically made their land areas similiar, would Phily make up the nearly $100 billion dollars it is behind? IMO, it may come close but I highlydoubt it. Trenton's GDP is around $22 billion I think, which is the largest MSA close to Philly, I think but I'm not sure.
Philly + connecting micro regions Real GDP 2008 would be a well diversified $453 B.
Houston is a heavily oil dependant $403 B in 2008. Houstons GDP acts more like a stock than an actual economic barometer. Houstons GDP increased $100 B between 2005-2008. Meanwhile diversified metroes like SF,Bos,Phillys only averaged $30B increase over the same time frame.
In 2005 Houstons GDP was $300M, almost even with Philly. Houstons GDP spiked in 2008 mainly due to the historic rise in oil prices $145 per barrel. Houston GDP is has probably fallen back into the mid $300's B with oil prices hovering around $70 B per barrel.
Philly -$332 B
Allentown-$28 B
Trenton-$25 B
Lancaster-$20 B
Reading-$15 B
Atlantic City-$14B
Dover-$6B
Vineland-Millville $5 B
Lebanon-$5 B
Ocean City- $4 B
Philly unoffical CMSA $453 B
Houston- Ehh Id guesstimate around $370 B considering the current market conditions in the energy market.
Philly + connecting micro regions Real GDP 2008 would be a well diversified $453 B.
Houston is a heavily oil dependant $403 B in 2008. Houstons GDP acts more like a stock than an actual economic barometer. Houstons GDP increased $100 B between 2005-2008. Meanwhile diversified metroes like SF,Bos,Phillys only averaged $30B increase over the same time frame.
In 2005 Houstons GDP was $300M, almost even with Philly. Houstons GDP spiked in 2008 mainly due to the historic rise in oil prices $145 per barrel. Houston GDP is has probably fallen back into the mid $300's B with oil prices hovering around $70 B per barrel.
Philly -$332 B
Allentown-$28 B
Trenton-$25 B
Lancaster-$20 B
Reading-$15 B
Atlantic City-$14B
Dover-$6B
Vineland-Millville $5 B
Lebanon-$5 B
Ocean City- $4 B
Philly unoffical CMSA $453 B
Houston- Ehh Id guesstimate around $370 B considering the current market conditions in the energy market.
Eh, is it really fair to lump some of those with Philly though? Places like the Lehigh Valley are more their own metro than an extension of Philly's, and when places are about equidistant between Philly and NYC (or maybe even closer to Philly), a large chunk of that economy is going to be tied closely to the NYC metro rather than Philly's since NYC's is so much bigger. Anyhow, I think it's a hard case to make for either Philly or Houston to be top five. The two are closer to each other than they are to NYC, DC, Bay Area, LA, and Chicago.
While I would rank DC as #1 if you count politics, Houston has the 2nd most Fortune 500 companies call it home (NYC is 1). Also has 60-70% of the nations oil and petrochemical capacity. Those two items give it plenty of political influence.
While I would rank DC as #1 if you count politics, Houston has the 2nd most Fortune 500 companies call it home (NYC is 1). Also has 60-70% of the nations oil and petrochemical capacity. Those two items give it plenty of political influence.
I thought Chicagoland and the Bay Area had more fortune 500 companies than the Houston area...
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