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I don't think any major city in America is largely Republican. And this is using the very Republican-friendly "registered voters" numbers (think about this, and you will see why). In reality, a small percentage of people are Republican. And, if you take away Baby Boomers, Republicanism ceases to be significant even on the national level. Just pulling this out of my butt, but I would estimate that about 10% of this country is Republican. Additionally, this 10% is grouped in significant proportion in the Southeastern United States. In the Northeast, for instance, Republicanism is now a small minority, and has no power beyond some local pockets. No doubt you are shocked by this estimate - but think about it - many people are not even registered to vote. That said, yes - Phoenix is more Republican than Philadelphia. But it's less Republican than Mohave County, which I already survived for 2 years. I just don't think, for me, the small percentage of people who are Republican really matters. It's not that I ignore them; it's that they have ceased to have influence on me. However, "aura" is no doubt affected by Republicans. But I think Arizona is more about a "hands off" mentality than Republican intrusionism. I never felt oppressed by Republicans in Arizona.
Your choice is quite strange... Phoenix and Tucson, being both desert cities, can be placed in the same group and then you can choose between the two basing your decision on size, natural beauty, traffic, activities, etc. LA, on the other hand, is an entirely different story... First, it's a huge megalopolis. Second, the scenery around is totally different. You're on the ocean! While Phoenix may be comparable in terms of size and look, desert and ocean are like day and night! I simply can't see how you can compare the "aura" of the desert and the ocean. Both of them have their own unique beauty, but they're vastly different and so are the activities each of them provides.
Tucson and Phoenix are nothing alike aside from both being in Arizona. Just because they are both in the desert means little to nothing since the two cities are entirely different. Phoenix is a much more developed city and is far more "west coast" in feel and appearance. Even weather wise, I feel they are different because Phoenix is much warmer. I was just there this weekend, and Tucson was a good 15 degrees cooler in the mornings and the evenings and you could certainly tell you were not in Phoenix any longer. My wife had never been to Tucson until this weekend (don't be suprised, it happens to a lot of long term Phoenix residents) and she said Tucson really reminds you more of Arizona and being in the Southwest than Phoenix which she feels is more or less an extension of Southern California. Tucson reminds me more of a city in New Mexico like a smaller Albuquerque and it feels much smaller than cities that have smaller populations like Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Tuscon really feels like a small town and not a city but I guess that is why people like it. It was a nice change from Phoenix and I can understand its appeal but it's nothing like Phoenix.
Regarding LA, you are making a mistake most people make about LA. I don't think you are aware that LA and Southern California is a desert as well? Yes, they have the coast nearby but it's the same desert landscape we have in Phoenix that was developed much earlier. They reroute water from the Colorado just like us. In fact, they are having a massive water shortage there and Governor Arnold is addressing it. This was on 60 Minutes: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n6014897.shtml. Movies have been made about this issue like the famous Roman Polansky film with Jack Nicholson "China Town" So aside from the ocean, the landscape is pretty much the same as Phoenix, particularly if you are in the east valley area of LA. Most people in LA never go to the beach unless they are directly adjacent to it; most live a very Phoenix lifestyle except they are paying more money for the same house and amenities. I'm an LA native and grew up there and I really don't feel like there is a big difference between Phoenix and LA any longer aside from the fact that Phoenix is obviously smaller. Sure, 20 years ago, there was a massive difference between the two cities but not any longer. That is why a lot of LA residents move here because they realize it's the same lifestyle but cheaper and minus access to the ocean of course.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 01-15-2010 at 11:26 AM..
Tucson and Phoenix are nothing alike aside from both being in Arizona. Just because they are both in the desert means little to nothing since the two cities are entirely different. Phoenix is a much more developed city and is far more "west coast" in feel and appearance. Even weather wise, I feel they are different because Phoenix is much warmer. I was just there this weekend, and Tucson was a good 15 degrees cooler in the mornings and the evenings and you could certainly tell you were not in Phoenix any longer. My wife had never been to Tucson until this weekend (don't be suprised, it happens to a lot of long term Phoenix residents) and she said Tucson really reminds you more of Arizona and being in the Southwest than Phoenix which she feels is more or less an extension of Southern California. Tucson reminds me more of a city in New Mexico like a smaller Albuquerque and it feels much smaller than cities that have smaller populations like Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Tuscon really feels like a small town and not a city but I guess that is why people like it. It was a nice change from Phoenix and I can understand its appeal but it's nothing like Phoenix.
Tucson & Phoenix being “nothing” alike is a quite far-fetched idea. Yes, it is hotter in Phoenix, but the natural landscape around is very similar. The man-made stuff in Phoenix does look like So Cal. As far as boring suburban sprawl, both places (and LA, too, of course) have plenty of it, but while Tucson at least has some history, character, and soul, Phoenix has nothing of this nature. It’s basically all about bedroom communities and shopping.
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Regarding LA, you are making a mistake most people make about LA. I don't think you are aware that LA and Southern California is a desert as well? Yes, they have the coast nearby but it's the same desert landscape we have in Phoenix that was developed much earlier. They reroute water from the Colorado just like us. In fact, they are having a massive water shortage there and Governor Arnold is addressing it. This was on 60 Minutes: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n6014897.shtml (broken link). Movies have been made about this issue like the famous Roman Polansky film with Jack Nicholson "China Town" So aside from the ocean, the landscape is pretty much the same as Phoenix, particularly if you are in the east valley area of LA.
I don’t think anybody cares about that as long as it doesn’t look it.
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Most people in LA never go to the beach unless they are directly adjacent to it; most live a very Phoenix lifestyle except they are paying more money for the same house and amenities.
Well, I’m sure there are people like that, but there are also others who love the beach.
Tucson & Phoenix being “nothing” alike is a quite far-fetched idea. Yes, it is hotter in Phoenix, but the natural landscape around is very similar. The man-made stuff in Phoenix does look like So Cal. As far as boring suburban sprawl, both places (and LA, too, of course) have plenty of it, but while Tucson at least has some history, character, and soul, Phoenix has nothing of this nature. It’s basically all about bedroom communities and shopping.
I like the history in Tucson, much of my family got a start there before Phoenix really existed, but to say Phoenix has no history, character, or soul is rather silly! I think Phoenix has a little more soul than Tucson, even if the city is newer and modern that doesn't devoid a place of "soul" nor character. If anything, Phoenix has developed much more character and international "flair" than any other southwestern city be it because of business, art, educational institutions, sporting events, or the natural and cultural attractions.
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I don’t think anybody cares about that as long as it doesn’t look it.
Very true...the "natural" landscape of L.A. before the area was cultivated and turned green wasn't desert but Mediterranean climate ( or Dry Summer Subtropical climate which evades a semi-arid classification). L.A. receives 27.2" of rain on average/year. That is far too wet to be a desert similar to anything like Phoenix.
Last edited by fcorrales80; 01-15-2010 at 08:33 PM..
"I don't think any major city in America is largely Republican. And this is using the very Republican-friendly "registered voters" numbers (think about this, and you will see why). In reality, a small percentage of people are Republican. And, if you take away Baby Boomers, Republicanism ceases to be significant even on the national level. Just pulling this out of my butt, but I would estimate that about 10% of this country is Republican. Additionally, this 10% is grouped in significant proportion in the Southeastern United States. In the Northeast, for instance, Republicanism is now a small minority, and has no power beyond some local pockets. No doubt you are shocked by this estimate - but think about it - many people are not even registered to vote. That said, yes - Phoenix is more Republican than Philadelphia. But it's less Republican than Mohave County, which I already survived for 2 years. I just don't think, for me, the small percentage of people who are Republican really matters. It's not that I ignore them; it's that they have ceased to have influence on me. However, "aura" is no doubt affected by Republicans. But I think Arizona is more about a "hands off" mentality than Republican intrusionism. I never felt oppressed by Republicans in Arizona."
"I don't think any major city in America is largely Republican. And this is using the very Republican-friendly "registered voters" numbers (think about this, and you will see why). In reality, a small percentage of people are Republican. And, if you take away Baby Boomers, Republicanism ceases to be significant even on the national level. Just pulling this out of my butt, but I would estimate that about 10% of this country is Republican. Additionally, this 10% is grouped in significant proportion in the Southeastern United States. In the Northeast, for instance, Republicanism is now a small minority, and has no power beyond some local pockets. No doubt you are shocked by this estimate - but think about it - many people are not even registered to vote. That said, yes - Phoenix is more Republican than Philadelphia. But it's less Republican than Mohave County, which I already survived for 2 years. I just don't think, for me, the small percentage of people who are Republican really matters. It's not that I ignore them; it's that they have ceased to have influence on me. However, "aura" is no doubt affected by Republicans. But I think Arizona is more about a "hands off" mentality than Republican intrusionism. I never felt oppressed by Republicans in Arizona."
"'Conservatives' does not necessarily mean Republican, however. There are conservative independents and conservative democrats...
Absolutely. And I don't disagree with [Generic Bicostal's] assessment that large metro areas tend to be more Democrat than Republican. But I thought it was a bit off to say that only 10% of the population is Republican (and most of those poeple live in the south).
My guess is that the vast majority of those who call themselves "conservative" vote for Republicans much more often than not (whether or not they call themselves "Republican", I guess).
Also, as a side note, there are certainly examples of liberal Republicans.
I think as a whole LA landscape can look like Phoenix, but what I like about it there is the topography is much more hilly and interesting than Phoenix.
Plus I used to work in a garden center many years ago and I definitely spotted lots of plants that flourish there that wouldn't last a day here. The coastal air and cooler nights make it feel like a totally different type of desert than Phoenix. It might not be blanketed with green trees in LA, but it feels much less deserty than here.
I hear people say all the time that you don't go to the beach unless you are adjacent and thats as far fetched as saying you don't go up North in AZ unless you are adjacent. When you enjoy something enough, you make the time to go to it. Sure you won't go as much when you live further away, but there are plenty of people who love the "idea" that they live just an hour or two from the coast in the same way that Phoenicians boast about being a couple hours from the forests or 6-7 hours from the coast.
Politically Phx to LA, they are 2 totally different animals. I can't imagine not noticing the abundance of conservatism here. When people have money here they are usually uptight, anal, ultra conservatives, but when they have money in LA, they are more or less ultra liberal hollywood partier types. Not sure which animal I prefer, but the political climate is noticeably different.
I think as a whole LA landscape can look like Phoenix, but what I like about it there is the topography is much more hilly and interesting than Phoenix.
Plus I used to work in a garden center many years ago and I definitely spotted lots of plants that flourish there that wouldn't last a day here. The coastal air and cooler nights make it feel like a totally different type of desert than Phoenix. It might not be blanketed with green trees in LA, but it feels much less deserty than here.
I hear people say all the time that you don't go to the beach unless you are adjacent and thats as far fetched as saying you don't go up North in AZ unless you are adjacent. When you enjoy something enough, you make the time to go to it. Sure you won't go as much when you live further away, but there are plenty of people who love the "idea" that they live just an hour or two from the coast in the same way that Phoenicians boast about being a couple hours from the forests or 6-7 hours from the coast.
Politically Phx to LA, they are 2 totally different animals. I can't imagine not noticing the abundance of conservatism here. When people have money here they are usually uptight, anal, ultra conservatives, but when they have money in LA, they are more or less ultra liberal hollywood partier types. Not sure which animal I prefer, but the political climate is noticeably different.
That's because L.A. isn't a desert is it a subtropical (dry summer) climate. They get over 27" of rain a year on average there...our Saguaros and other type of desert plants (native only to Arizona/Sonoran Desert) would die from too much moisture, LOL! Go figure...AND most of the wealthy or "monied" type in L.A. can be counted in more conservative areas of the "Southland" like Orange County, Beverly Hills, Westwood, Brentwood, etc. If you've ever lived in those areas you'd definately notice the difference from West Hollywood...
Ritchie: I agree! I think 10% republican population is much too small...
I've been reading this site's blog posts for years, and finally I have decided to post. I believe this is unquestionably the most informative city blog in existence. And I have been thoroughly entertained by both positive and negative people, conservatives and liberals alike. It's good fun, no sarcasm yet.
Briefly about me: I have traveled to 44 states and DC, and lived in 10 of them: MA, NY, NJ, PA, MD, DC, VA, IN, NV, and AZ. And I am still young. But within the next few years I must make what could be my final move, and I am taking it very seriously. I love many cities and towns, but I have narrowed the final destination down to Phoenix, Tucson, or LA. I have been to all three places a handful of times, although Tucson less so, and I know I will LOVE all three, despite their shortcomings (which have been revealed on this blog repeatedly). I have researched all I can about these places, and I love the desert and the coast, but there is one intangible I have not been able to figure out. That is what I would call the "aura" of each city. I am not getting all New-Agey or religious - I am neither. I believe both people and places have an "aura" that cannot be reduced to statstical analysis. This "aura" doesn't really exist except in my head probably. But I'd like to know what you all think about the "aura" of these three cities. Which one has the best "aura," however you wish to define it?
Finally, don't bother with discussions of crime and traffic and immigration, PLEASE! These things are present in every major city, and, honestly, having visited every major US city, and lived in many of them, Tucson and Phoenix have very little crime, and LA overall has just an average share. Yes, crime sucks and is higher than it should be everywhere, but for me personally, it's a wash. (Of course, I am stupid enough to have slept on Miami Beach - no, I was not mugged in that place at least.) Thanks for the responses - have fun!
I would recommed Los Angeles or Tucson.
Phoenix is, more or less, an oversized, generic blob of strip malls and chain stores that one can find in any suburb around the country. Phoenix is quite conservative relative to the other two cities you mention, with a pretty massive Mormon population in the suburbs. The metropolitan area dominates state politics, which is the reason why Arizona seems so conservative and right-wing overall. The city is trying desperately to create a downtown environment that meets that of cities half its size, but it comes up short. Salt Lake City's downtown, with not even 200,000 people, is more entertaining than Phoenix's.
There is little civic pride in Phoenix, most everything is new, the history of the area is barely even recognized by everyday residents, it's hotter than the devil's breath in summertime, and overall it is too large to be such a dull place. Ask the few Phoenicians on the street what makes Phoenix unique and listen to the silence.
The Tucson area has about 1/4 the population of Phoenix. Tucson tends to be substantially more liberal than the Phoenix area and has consistently voted for Democratic city council members and Democratic presidential candidates for YEARS. Tucson has much more of a bohemian vibe to it. Unfortunately, Tucsonans like to believe that the city and metro area are much smaller than they really are, leading to planning decisions that are more appropriate for a small town than a growing metropolitan area.
Residents celebrate the fact that Tucson has not turned into another Phoenix. Whereas Phoenix has rids itself of much of its ethnic history, Tucson embraces it.
For years there has been a movement to revitalize downtown Tucson. Due to political incompetence and the economy, a lot of plans have fallen through. However, some proposals have actually come to fruition. These include locating more housing and restaurants downtown. With the exception of major sporting arenas, Tucson's downtown, IMO, offers more than Phoenix's downtown, despite the fact that Phoenix has almost 3 times as many people. Tucson has numerous downtown nightclubs and bars that Phoenix did not have when it had 550K people. Downtown also has a few late-night eateries that are open until 3:00 AM on weekends. Downtown is connected to the 4th Avenue corridor, which is connected to the University area all housing unique, independent shops unlike Phoenix which just houses the same ole' chains.
Tucson also celebrates its Hispanic and Native American heritage, which Phoenix has rejected. Many original Native American and Mexican neighborhoods are still vibrant areas and not victims of "urban renewal" or the need for a freeway or three. Tucson embraces its minority population, while Phoenix has marginalized them, pushed them to the side, and then claimed that they were illegal.
Civic pride is quite large in Tucson, with the "Tucson Meet Yourself" event, numerous active neighborhood associations, and high turnout to city council meetings regarding city affairs. Tucsonans refuse to have the wool pulled over their eyes regarding any matter, while many Phoenicians are too busy shopping at Linens 'n Things to care.
Tucson's summer climate is extremely hot, but cooler than that of Phoenix. Phoenix summers frequently consist of low temperatures between 85-95 degrees, with low temperatures as high as 96 degrees recorded. There are no other places on Earth where that happens. Tucson's lows are generally between 70-80 degrees, with 60s not out of the question. It also rains substantially more in Phoenix than in Tucson creating a much lusher desert environment.
Los Angeles is massive, as I'm sure you know, but is a lot more interesting that Phoenix OR Tucson. The variety of landscapes in unmatched in Arizona. Salaries are significantly higher. There a great deal of diversity. The climate is much more tolerable. The city just feels more sophisticated than Tucson or Phoenix.
The downside, of course, is higher home prices, higher taxes, natural disasters, and an economy that is somehow worse than Arizona's.
Last edited by miamiman; 01-15-2010 at 11:37 PM..
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