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=Spade;37772151]I would put Tennessee above Texas because of the West Texas and South Texas affect. These two areas in Texas are not at all Southern. Especially the Valley. You also forgot NC and Arkansas.
My list would be.
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
Louisiana
Tennessee
Arkansas
North Carolina
Texas
Virginia
Oklahoma
Kentucky
Florida
Missouri
West Virginia
Maryland
Delaware
Last four are sometimes counted as southern and sometimes not. The others are all the time.
We have talked/discussed this one before and we disagree. West Texas (with the exception of far West Texas) is probably (just my opinion of course) the most misunderstood/underestimated region of all when it comes to Southern influence. A lot of that is because of the topography of the land. But because it was overwhelmingly settled by Southerners after the War, it remains a bastion of the Southern Baptist Church, the dialect spoken is definitely one of many sub-varieties of what it broadly known as Southern American English (in West Texas it is decidedly the "twang" of the Upper South), and probably most important is that on regional-self identification studies residents consider themselves to live in the South and think of themselves as Southerners (not to the degree of those who live in the eastern two thirds do, but a majority nonetheless). And there are other things as well. All of this fades abruptly when one crosses into New Mexico (except for that small slice in the eastern part which is known as "Little Texas".
South Texas -- at least far South Texas -- is a little different, although much of what is said about West Texas applies (San Antonio still touts itself as a combination of Old South and Old Mexico). Its roots are definitely Southern. The main thing about South Texas today though, is the very large and getting larger Mexican population/influence, which has never really embraced Southern culture and sense of identification with it. This is a comparatively recent phenomenon, but it is also very real...
So to you, Deep South means more Southern huh? I'd disagree with that in some respects and let's not forget that western TN is the Deep South and Upstate SC, the region that contains the state's largest CSA, is Upper South. And the only place that's truly transplant-friendly in TN is Nashville whereas for SC, it's the coast (Myrtle, Charleston, Hilton Head) and the Charlotte suburbs primarily. TN has a much heavier Southern Appalachian culture than SC and is the epicenter of evangelical Protestantism (Nashville is nicknamed the "Protestant Vatican") and Southern musical genres; it's also more conservative than SC. Cajun culture in LA is a Southern subculture, much like the Gullah/Geechee culture with West African influences in the SC Lowcountry is a Southern subculture, plus SC is experiencing a larger influx of transplants than LA. So yeah, I can see someone saying that TN and LA are a little more Southern than SC.
That's true, I'd agree with most of this. Still, in my book, the only states more southern than SC have to be Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. Only my opinion, though.
That's true, I'd agree with most of this. Still, in my book, the only states more southern than SC have to be Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. Only my opinion, though.
That's reasonable. I just think that SC, TN, and LA are close enough together where an argument could be made that one is a little less culturally Southern than the other two.
That's reasonable. I just think that SC, TN, and LA are close enough together where an argument could be made that one is a little less culturally Southern than the other two.
Definitely. The big three, IMO, are Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. If you want the Deep South, therefore the states that are the most "southern" of them all IMO, those are the three. However, right behind those, you have South Carolina, Louisiana, and Tennessee. After those, Arkansas and North Carolina, but it seems like most believe Arkansas is more southern than North Carolina. Then, you start getting into Virginia, Texas, Florida, Kentucky, etc.
Definitely. The big three, IMO, are Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. If you want the Deep South, therefore the states that are the most "southern" of them all IMO, those are the three. However, right behind those, you have South Carolina, Louisiana, and Tennessee. After those, Arkansas and North Carolina, but it seems like most believe Arkansas is more southern than North Carolina. Then, you start getting into Virginia, Texas, Florida, Kentucky, etc.
IMO, there's really only an undisputed "big two" which are MS and AL. Due to Atlanta, there's a gap between GA and those two.
I would put Tennessee above Texas because of the West Texas and South Texas affect. These two areas in Texas are not at all Southern. Especially the Valley.You also forgot NC and Arkansas.
My list would be.
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
Louisiana
Tennessee
Arkansas
North Carolina
Texas
Virginia
Oklahoma
Kentucky
Florida
Missouri
West Virginia
Maryland
Delaware
Last four are sometimes counted as southern and sometimes not. The others are all the time.
This article was published about 4 years ago, unfortunately it can only be accessed through a University or participating library. I read it several years ago but no longer have access to the whole article, though I do remember they had three categories, which were basically Very Southern, Southern and Slightly Southern.
That's why I made the qualifier on those four. I mean the Southern part of Missouri is Southern IMO. But KC and STL are not Southern at all. So that's why I said sometimes people like to count it and sometimes people don't.
Understood the qualifier, was strictly basing my assumption from the major cities I have visited in Missouri.
Do you believe that the all of the Texas Triangle is in the South? Because if so, 80% of the population of Texas lives in it. I'm sure this argument may have been used before, but IMO the Texas Triangle is 75-80% southern culturally.
East Texas is not considered in the Texas Triangle but is undoubtedly Southern. I think the West Texas argument is bogus, especially when the majority of the population lives East if I-35.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824
How is this the first time you have heard of Missouri being considered southern??? You do realize one of the stars on the stars and bars represents Missouri.....
Yes, this is actually my first time. I think because when folks say Missouri they don't mention it to be southern more mid-western. I have a friend from St. Louis who lives in Houston and he claims to be from the mid-west when we debate, but that not the southern part of Missouri so IDK, maybe it is southern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb
We have talked/discussed this one before and we disagree. West Texas (with the exception of far West Texas) is probably (just my opinion of course) the most misunderstood/underestimated region of all when it comes to Southern influence. A lot of that is because of the topography of the land. But because it was overwhelmingly settled by Southerners after the War, it remains a bastion of the Southern Baptist Church, the dialect spoken is definitely one of many sub-varieties of what it broadly known as Southern American English (in West Texas it is decidedly the "twang" of the Upper South), and probably most important is that on regional-self identification studies residents consider themselves to live in the South and think of themselves as Southerners (not to the degree of those who live in the eastern two thirds do, but a majority nonetheless). And there are other things as well. All of this fades abruptly when one crosses into New Mexico (except for that small slice in the eastern part which is known as "Little Texas".
South Texas -- at least far South Texas -- is a little different, although much of what is said about West Texas applies (San Antonio still touts itself as a combination of Old South and Old Mexico). Its roots are definitely Southern. The main thing about South Texas today though, is the very large and getting larger Mexican population/influence, which has never really embraced Southern culture and sense of identification with it. This is a comparatively recent phenomenon, but it is also very real...
I live here in Florida and that is my opinion. You can't just deduct south florida and north florida is more southern. Since you are an american citizen you should respect all state borders. So it is all or nothing in my book. I was actually suprised when people consiser missouri the south when it is actually the midwest. Since I was born and practically raised in Kentucky, I can say that it is southern, people talk with a draw, they can cook, clean, craft. And that is everywhere, you can't say nothing because I know this place like the back of my hand, so it is not the midwest.
[quote=muppethammer26;37202727]Here's my ranking of the southern states from 1 to 10 (this includes some of the non-southern states that have southern influences, but usually have a low rating):
Mississippi-10 (A deep southern state)
Alabama-10 (A deep southern state)
Louisiana-10 (A deep southern state)
Georgia-9 (Mostly southern except for Atlanta)
South Carolina-9 (Mostly southern except for a few pockets)
Tennessee-8 (Mostly southern, but influenced by the Appalachians)
North Carolina-8 (Mostly southern except for Charlotte and Raleigh)
Arkansas-8 (Mostly southern and is part of the Mississippi Delta)
Florida-7 (I just put Florida at a higher rank than Virginia and Kentucky because of Florida's deep south location and history)
Kentucky-6 (has Midwestern influences in the north, supposed to be in the confederacy)
Virginia-6 (has East Coast influences in the north)
Texas-5 (a really big state, sometimes called a southern state)
West Virginia-4 (most of West Virginia are similar to Pennsylvania)
Oklahoma-4 (Half southern, half Midwestern)
Missouri-4 (Southern Missouri is similar to Arkansas and Tennessee and was supposed to be in the confederacy)
Illinois-3 (has parts that have southern influences in the southern part of the state)
New Mexico-3 (borders Texas, but is mostly southwestern)
Indiana-3 (borders Kentucky and has southern influences in the south)
Maryland-2 (rarely called a southern state)
Kansas-2 (borders Oklahoma and Missouri)
Ohio-1 (nothing southern but the southernmost parts borders Kentucky)
Arizona-1 (nothing southern other than the location)
The rest of the US gets a 0
Kentucky is far more southern than florida because being born in kentucky, it is very rural and country with good chicken and bluegrass music playing in the backround. Florida is not even the south. Just because it was in the confederacy it does not make it southern. It is so urban in florida to be considered the south. Check Virginia too, it is a little misplaced.
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, as always very insightful.
