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According to that page, the largest urban areas are (btw, I combined Washington and Baltimore, and SF ans SJ because there is continuous development between the two:
1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington-Baltimore
5. Philadelphia
6. Miami
7. San Francisco-San Jose
8. Dallas-Fort Worth
9. Boston
10. Detroit
11. Houston
12. Atlanta
13. Phoenix
14. Seattle
15. San Diego
16. Minneapolis-St. Paul
17. St. Louis
18. Tampa
19. Denver
20. Cleveland
It changes the rankings a little bit from the regular MSA and CSA rankings.
I agree that Urban Area population is the best way to get a sense of the reach of a city. Keep in mind though that this information was last updated 10 years ago. When the Census is released next year there are going to be some huge changes with the list above.
I agree that Urban Area population is the best way to get a sense of the reach of a city. Keep in mind though that this information was last updated 10 years ago. When the Census is released next year there are going to be some huge changes with the list above.
I think the urban area actually gives a better estimate of MSA - continuous over 1,000 ppsm. My issue on this in comparing cities is that that really should be urban/suburban area not Urban. I would like to see a population metric of continuous pop over 5K or 7K as a better marker of "City" or urbanized area for a comparison
I think the urban area actually gives a better estimate of MSA - continuous over 1,000 ppsm. My issue on this in comparing cities is that that really should be urban/suburban area not Urban. I would like to see a population metric of continuous pop over 5K or 7K as a better marker of "City" or urbanized area for a comparison
In theory, the Urban area measurement is supposed to measure the "city-oriented" portion of an area. The metro area includes the suburban and the rural parts of an area that feed into the larger city.
Yes I agree; the burbs are the burbs. My intent on this discussion was less around comparative MSA or CSA for that matter but how to compare the urban city portions; where boundaries are either too small or too large. So I would actually say the burbs wouldnt count; nor a satelite city unless continuously inhabited. To me it may be as low as 5K ppsm as the barometer but I think 7 or 8 is probably a better indicator of an urban space
Would you consider industrial, commercial, commerce and employment area as suburbs if they aren’t dense? and consider a bedroom community the city if it’s dense? Again your more concern with density than the function of the neighborhoods. "Again density doesn’t matter! if you measure by density that it self would be an inaccurate way to determine a comparative city population. The only thing you can get out of that, is how dense a city is"
Cities have different sizes depending if the city can annex it's completely political, MSA on the other hand depends if the development is laid out. I going use the egg in the basket metaphor again. Eggs are the industrial, commercial, commerce and employment areas. Some cities have all their eggs in on basket (dense) some cities have their eggs a little spread out. That doesn’t make the city with all it’s eggs in one basket bigger, it just makes that city denser. What your doing is judging cities by who have the biggest basket, and trying to discount the cities that are multi core. Philly has one large CBD, Houston has 7 CBDs: Downtown, Uptown, Texas Medical Center, Greenway Plaza, Energy Corridor, Weshchase, and Greenspoint. The city development and population is spread out.
Quote:
this is my thought
<1,000 Rural
1,000 to 3,000 exurban
4,000 to 7,000 suburban
7,000+ Urban
Atlanta proper is 4,082 ppsm, Dallas 3,698 ppsm, Houston 3,667 with your formula Atlanta is surburban, Dallas and Houston are between surburban and exurban, that does sounds like a northeast cute joke cities built in different way density is invalid it's an Accident, not an Essence.
this is my thought
non developed Rural
Distant commuter and bedroom town, Exurban
commuter and bedroom town, Suburban
industrial, commercial, commerce and employment area, Urban
Would you consider industrial, commercial, commerce and employment area as suburbs if they aren’t dense? and consider a bedroom community the city if it’s dense? Again your more concern with density than the function of the neighborhoods. "Again density doesn’t matter! if you measure by density that it self would be an inaccurate way to determine a comparative city population. The only thing you can get out of that, is how dense a city is"
Cities have different sizes depending if the city can annex it's completely political, MSA on the other hand depends if the development is laid out. I going use the egg in the basket metaphor again. Eggs are the industrial, commercial, commerce and employment areas. Some cities have all their eggs in on basket (dense) some cities have their eggs a little spread out. That doesn’t make the city with all it’s eggs in one basket bigger, it just makes that city denser. What your doing is judging cities by who have the biggest basket, and trying to discount the cities that are multi core. Philly has one large CBD, Houston has 7 CBDs: Downtown, Uptown, Texas Medical Center, Greenway Plaza, Energy Corridor, Weshchase, and Greenspoint. The city development and population is spread out.
Atlanta proper is 4,082 ppsm, Dallas 3,698 ppsm, Houston 3,667 with your formula Atlanta is surburban, Dallas and Houston are between surburban and exurban, that does sounds like a northeast cute joke cities built in different way density is invalid it's an Accident, not an Essence.
this is my thought
non developed Rural
Distant commuter and bedroom town, Exurban
commuter and bedroom town, Suburban
industrial, commercial, commerce and employment area, Urban
On the last point; no I am saying compare the population of continuous space that exceeds those thresholds; the numbers are the average not the concentration. Overall I wasnt looking to compare metros but the actual cities; so suburbia is not part of what i am looking to include. And to your point city boundaries are also arbitrary (Atlanta case in point a very small area by sq miles.)
On the central CBD versus satalite; that is actually incorrect as well; in the Philly metro there is KOP (larger I belive than any single CBD in Atlanta in number of jobs and in the burbs), Mt Laurel, Wilimington, Plymouth Meeting, Horsham, Fort Washington, and Trenton as satalite CBDs - but i wasnt looking to include these as an assessment and comparator for the urban core.
On the last point; no I am saying compare the population of continuous space that exceeds those thresholds; the numbers are the average not the concentration. Overall I wasnt looking to compare metros but the actual cities; so suburbia is not part of what i am looking to include. And to your point city boundaries are also arbitrary (Atlanta case in point a very small area by sq miles.)
Your sefinition of “suburbia†is low dense instead of bedroom and commuter towns.
Quote:
On the central CBD versus satalite; that is actually incorrect as well; in the Philly metro there is KOP (larger I belive than any single CBD in Atlanta in number of jobs and in the burbs), Mt Laurel, Wilimington, Plymouth Meeting, Horsham, Fort Washington, and Trenton as satalite CBDs - but i wasnt looking to include these as an assessment and comparator for the urban core.
The KOP is not a CBD it's a very large mall, and are you sure KOP has more jobs than The Atlanta's Cumberland CBD it employs over 122,000 workers and it's the smallest of the metro major five. The KOP to uptown Houston is also not good Comparison either.
KOP is like a larger Alpharetta
Mt Laurel is like Kennesaw
Horsham is like Marietta
Plymouth Meeting is like Duluth
Fort Washington is like Buford
those are suburbs not what I'm talking about
Wilimington is an Satellite town also not what i'm talking about and if Trenton is philly satalite, in that sense Atlanta's satalite is Athens.
Philly isn't built with multiple cores DC is an east cities that is, right outside of the city proper is Rosslyn, Crystal city and etc.
You miss the metaphor of "all the eggs aren't in one basket". If cities are Matter were trying to get a city’s (population) mass, not it's density sunbelt cities have clustered polycentric cores there inherently spread out and low dense. The problem with the thresholds ideal is if a city grow out instead of up it won’t count as the city population. It's misleading you can up with Pittsburgh being larger than Dallas.
Your sefinition of “suburbia” is low dense instead of bedroom and commuter towns.
The KOP is not a CBD it's a very large mall, and are you sure KOP has more jobs than The Atlanta's Cumberland CBD it employs over 122,000 workers and it's the smallest of the metro major five. The KOP to uptown Houston is also not good Comparison either.
KOP is like a larger Alpharetta
Mt Laurel is like Kennesaw
Horsham is like Marietta
Plymouth Meeting is like Duluth
Fort Washington is like Buford
those are suburbs not what I'm talking about
Wilimington is an Satellite town also not what i'm talking about and if Trenton is philly satalite, in that sense Atlanta's satalite is Athens.
Philly isn't built with multiple cores DC is an east cities that is, right outside of the city proper is Rosslyn, Crystal city and etc.
You miss the metaphor of "all the eggs aren't in one basket". If cities are Matter were trying to get a city’s (population) mass, not it's density sunbelt cities have clustered polycentric cores there inherently spread out and low dense. The problem with the thresholds ideal is if a city grow out instead of up it won’t count as the city population. It's misleading you can up with Pittsburgh being larger than Dallas.
Atlanta's suburbs are not comparable to philly's suburbs. Most of Philly's inner burbs, would be considered urban by Sunbelt standards. These suburbs include Norristown/Conshy(KOP area), Manyunk/Roxboro/Chestnut Hill/Mt. Airy area, Glenside/Jekintown/Willow Grove area, Far NE Philly, Darby/Landsdowne/Media area, Chester, Pennsauken/Cherry Hill(Camden burbs), and the Mainline.
All these inner burbs that surround Philly are denser than ATL's city proper.
ATL should focus on densifying its "city" before it worries about branching out, because who cares how cool your 'burbs are if your city's corny.
Last edited by killakoolaide; 04-16-2010 at 05:46 PM..
Atlanta's suburbs are not comparable to philly's suburbs. Most of Philly's inner burbs, would be considered urban by Sunbelt standards. These suburbs include Norristown/Conshy(KOP area), Manyunk/Roxboro/Chestnut Hill/Mt. Airy area, Glenside/Jekintown/Willow Grove area, Far NE Philly, Darby/Landsdowne/Media area, Chester, Pennsauken/Cherry Hill(Camden burbs), and the Mainline.
All these inner burbs that surround Philly are denser than ATL's city proper.
ATL should focus on densifying its "city" before it worries about branching out, because who cares how cool your 'burbs are if your city's corny.
Yes I didn't compare them, you didn't read my post did you? I said density is in invalid, then you come and bring up density ) I was comparing the level commercial vs. bedroom community activeness that comparison was on point. And to prevent a off topic argument I going to ignore your last comment.
I know what your saying, but how does ATL support a decentralized metroplex system with such an indadequate system of rails and public transportation.
All the philly burbs I just mentioned can be all be reached via Commuter Train/Bus/ and or Trolley(Light Rail). In order for a place to be a supplemental CBD it has to be linked to the main CBD, obviously by road but also, by rail.
Last edited by killakoolaide; 04-16-2010 at 06:34 PM..
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killakoolaide
I know what your saying, but how does ATL support a decentralized metroplex system with such an indadequate system of rails and public transportation.
The City of Atlanta is literally at the center of the metro. All of the major highways converge in Downtown, 260,000 people commute into the city from the burbs to work in Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead (one continuous string of CBDs centered on main artery stretching for 12 miles), and the city's subway handles 500,000 passengers each day. True we don't have commuter rail yet, but we do have a heavily used commuter bus network from the burbs.
There are three major CBDs outside the city. One of them, Perimeter Center, has 3 subway stations serving them. The other two, Cumberland and Alpharetta, do not have rail but do have pretty adequate bus systems. Consequently, those two business centers also have the heaviest traffic in the entire metro. Many plans have been put forth for commuter rail and light rail in those areas, but due to the state government being controlled by people from South Georgia who don't care about the city, it has gone nowhere. Hopefully, we'll get some new people in the mix this election.
Last edited by waronxmas; 04-16-2010 at 08:17 PM..
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) I was comparing the level commercial vs. bedroom community activeness that comparison was on point. And to prevent a off topic argument I going to ignore your last comment.
