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Any chance we can get just a smidgen of maturity in this thread. I appreciate your passion but this thread is like reading message boards of a college football game. Good gracious!
^
In reply to the post above. Congrats to KC, you should be proud of Country Club Plaza. It's truly a treasure.
for those of you who know little about the loop: it's a very trendy, hip street with everything from ethnic food to concert venues to boutique shops to head shops to tatoo parlors. It's a very american street.
I will list 20 of my favorite things about StL if pmd can do the same for kc! I would bet he doesn't know enough about KC to list five things, let alone 20!
Lets' get this out of the way first, the standard attractions are great in StL, especially for the novice visitors (Arch, Laclede's Landing, Union Station, Zoo, Anheuser Busch tour, Science Center, Botanical Gardens, Magic House, Grant's Farm, Six Flags.)
But here are 20 things I like about St Louis other outside the core attractions:
The Hill's food, specifically, Favazza's Restaurant
White Castle and lots of em.
Forest Park is one of the country's best urban parks, love to sled down Art Hill!
The FREE attractions (science center, zoo)
Central West End, a great part of urban StL.
MetroRail is one of the best light rail systems in the country since it's the best of both heavy and light rail in one.
They took it out with the new runway and lindbergh alignment and there are far less flights now anyway, but the old parking lot west of the runways was a great place to watch planes, even 747s (when StL had them) fly over.
Washington Ave, a slice of the upper east side of Manhattan in Missouri.
Speaking of Wash Ave, the City Museum is one of the neatest places I have ever visited and should be right up there with disney world for any 10 year old.
Fox Theater for obvious reasons.
The Katy Trail in St Charles County.
The casinos in StL. KC "used" to have better casinos. With the new Ameristar and Lumiere Place, StL has the better ones now.
Helicopter rides. Few cities offer tourist helicopter rides and StL is one of them.
Soulard, SLU, University City, Lafayett Square etc. StL has some fantastic urban neighborhoods.
Blues Hockey, adopted Blues, trying to become a Caps fan, but will always like the Blues.
The nascar go-cart track at mills mall. They never get old!
Ladue
Eads Bridge is awesome
Last but not least. Busch Stadium. As a MLB fan, I can give credit where credit is due. Great stadium. Great fans.
I will take 5k more downtown residents than 800k more suburban residents any day of the week in any city/metro. 4 million people could live outside 270 and that would change nothing although 25,000 people living in a downtown vs 10,000 makes a HUGE difference in how a city feels.
BTW, better beer is debatable. KC is all about Boulevard Beer, which I think is pretty good and sure StL is a top MLB town, but a somewhat flaky NHL town and a terrible NFL town.
I still think KC is just as much of an MLB town with a bad team. As big of a Cards town that StL is, I can see 10k out there on a weeknight if the team sucked as bad as the Royals for 25 years, just like I saw last night in Baltimore (2k of them were KC fans).
Nobody knows what's it's like to be a Royals fan and for a team that bad for that long in a metro of only 2 million to still draw 20k a game says something. Few other towns would still support a team after 25 years of horrible baseball. StL "might" be one of them, but the way the fans can jump off bandwagons for your other teams, I don't think StL is really all that different than any other city. Put the Royals in any other city and they would NOT average 20k a game today. Probably under 10k.
You guys love to talk about your size. 2.8 million people! Well, you don't compare to cities like Denver and Minneapolis, you have the metro population of Denver or Minneapolis but in reality, you compare more to a Kansas City (with more suburbs), regardless of how many people live in St Charles County or Metro East and regardless of how large StLouis City once was.
Detroit is bigger than StLouis, but I would say StLouis has more going on. Detroit has more people in the burbs, but their downtown and urban core still leave much to be desired compared to StL.
Same deal with StL / KC only in KC and StL they end up more as a tie then one really beating the other even though one is 800k bigger.
Which BTW is even somewhat debateble considering the STL MSA is freaking bigger than KC's and KC's doesn't even include places like Lawrence which IS part of the KC area.
coming from the east coast and never having been to missouri before august 2007, kansas city was about what i expected: a pleasant midwestern city with some good barbecue. st. louis was a lot more than i expected, and it is loaded with all those intangibles that come with age. st. louis, unlike kansas city, has been a major city for over 200 years. that counts for something.
above all else, st. louis has an outstanding academic environment, especially for medicine and biotech. kansas city is getting better in these areas, but it won't ever match, let alone surpass, st. louis in this regard. washington university is an international magnet institution, drawing some of the best and brightest from around the globe. kansas city has nothing even close. this is only one category in which there is simply no meaningful comparison between these two cities. there are a few things kc does better; there are a lot more in stl's favor, though.
Yo slengel, guess who took those photos?!?...
KCMO is the urbanphotos guy, lol.
Last edited by aaronstlcards; 05-20-2010 at 04:15 PM..
Yea, that's another thing. Downtown KC has more office space than downtown StL.
KC has about 16 million of rentable space, 20 million plus total (with federal, city, state buildings)
StL has 13 million of rentable (not sure total).
Plaza in KC has close to 5 million sq ft of office and who knows how many residents.
Clayton has about 8 million I think.
Sort of evens out eh?
KCMO, are you positive that downtown KC has more office space than downtown STL? Can you say you are 100% positive? If so, then KC must has a lot of vacant office space downtown. The daytime population in STL is 80k while KC has 60k. Thats a huge difference and results in a lot of empty buildings if true.
To Skrizzle and KCMO, are you sure downtown KC is more active than downtown STL? We have a significantly larger daytime population, 3 stadiums, and multiple other attractions. In addition why have a significant larger quanity of hotel rooms in downtown STL. KC's downtown resident population is only slightly larger than STL's and really doesnt make up for the difference in total population. At 8am every weekday 80k begin their workday downtown in downtown STL and when they leave they are replaced with 40k baseball fans and 12k residents. In KC when the 60k workers leave they are replaced with only 15k residents. I am sorry guys, but overall, if you average 365 days a year, downtown STL is a lot more active than downtown KC. Sorry but thats the truth. You're not as good as you think you are.
KCMO, you have admitted in another thread that downtown STL is more active than downtown KC. You can go ahead and confirm this or I will post the proof. Waiting......
I will say the plaza is awesome and is way better than Clayton. Clayton is nothing more than a secondary business district. Thats it.
KCMO, are you positive that downtown KC has more office space than downtown STL? Can you say you are 100% positive? If so, then KC must has a lot of vacant office space downtown. The daytime population in STL is 80k while KC has 60k. Thats a huge difference and results in a lot of empty buildings if true.
To Skrizzle and KCMO, are you sure downtown KC is more active than downtown STL? We have a significantly larger daytime population, 3 stadiums, and multiple other attractions. In addition why have a significant larger quanity of hotel rooms in downtown STL. KC's downtown resident population is only slightly larger than STL's and really doesnt make up for the difference in total population. At 8am every weekday 80k begin their workday downtown in downtown STL and when they leave they are replaced with 40k baseball fans and 12k residents. In KC when the 60k workers leave they are replaced with only 15k residents. I am sorry guys, but overall, if you average 365 days a year, downtown STL is a lot more active than downtown KC. Sorry but thats the truth. You're not as good as you think you are.
KCMO, you have admitted in another thread that downtown STL is more active than downtown KC. You can go ahead and confirm this or I will post the proof. Waiting......
I will say the plaza is awesome and is way better than Clayton. Clayton is nothing more than a secondary business district. That’s it.
Downtown KC has well over 100,000 employees. The KC Downtown Loop has 60k I think. Crown Center is included as part of downtown. It's only 8-10 blocks from the heart of Downtown or about the same distance Union Station is from the old courthouse. Some people try to limit downtown kc to the freeway loop, which is silly.
I wouldn't have even posted all that had somebody not come in here and started slamming KC.
I honeslty think they are about the same. Downtown KC has more residents and a better nightlife scene, while downtown StL has all the stadiums, arch etc.
My point all along is that they are comparable.
I get the feeling skrizzle truly does not care for StLouis all that much .
KCMO, are you positive that downtown KC has more office space than downtown STL? Can you say you are 100% positive? If so, then KC must has a lot of vacant office space downtown. The daytime population in STL is 80k while KC has 60k. Thats a huge difference and results in a lot of empty buildings if true.
To Skrizzle and KCMO, are you sure downtown KC is more active than downtown STL? We have a significantly larger daytime population, 3 stadiums, and multiple other attractions. In addition why have a significant larger quanity of hotel rooms in downtown STL. KC's downtown resident population is only slightly larger than STL's and really doesnt make up for the difference in total population. At 8am every weekday 80k begin their workday downtown in downtown STL and when they leave they are replaced with 40k baseball fans and 12k residents. In KC when the 60k workers leave they are replaced with only 15k residents. I am sorry guys, but overall, if you average 365 days a year, downtown STL is a lot more active than downtown KC. Sorry but thats the truth. You're not as good as you think you are.
KCMO, you have admitted in another thread that downtown STL is more active than downtown KC. You can go ahead and confirm this or I will post the proof. Waiting......
I will say the plaza is awesome and is way better than Clayton. Clayton is nothing more than a secondary business district. Thats it.
Nice that you say 15k residents tho it was over 17k in 2008.... get it right fool
Downtown KC has well over 100,000 employees. The KC Downtown Loop has 60k I think. Crown Center is included as part of downtown. It's only 8-10 blocks from the heart of Downtown or about the same distance Union Station is from the old courthouse. Some people try to limit downtown kc to the freeway loop, which is silly.
I wouldn't have even posted all that had somebody not come in here and started slamming KC.
I honeslty think they are about the same. Downtown KC has more residents and a better nightlife scene, while downtown StL has all the stadiums, arch etc.
My point all along is that they are comparable.
I get the feeling skrizzle truly does not care for StLouis all that much .
Believe me it is not 100k employees per the information given by the census bureau. When you go about trying to adjust stats then thats where your argument fails. I have been to both downtowns and believe me the nightlife in downtown KC is not on the same level as downtown STL. When is the last time you have been in downtown STL for a beer? I will have to post your comment later when I have time since you wont admit it.
Skrizzle is a young naive person looking to get out of KC per the thread she started about 6 months ago. I can post those comments too.
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