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You mention both cities in your post but then don't really specify where are those photos taken residential Kansas City or residential St. Louis? They look great!
It's St Louis, the first pics are Lafayette Square
^
I agree, STL is not in a decline, but has improved dramatically over the past 10 years. St Louis just overwhelmingly passed Prop A, to expand their metrolink system and the bus system has improved quite a bit. This subject has been beat to death in other forums, I will just copy a post I wrote.
I grew up spending a lot of time in both cities. I have lived in St Louis for almost 6 years now. I live in the city and absolutely love it.
Population: St Louis is bigger than KC by about a million people, (I think 800,000) Both cities are experiencing growth.
Economy: Here is the breakdown of Missouri Economy from the MERIC website:
% of Missouri GDP:
St. Louis 46%
KC 22%
Others 32%
Sports: STL is a HUGE baseball town, we also have the Blues-Hockey and Rams-Football. KC seems to be much more into Football and there are a lot of die hard Chiefs fans. They also have the Royals for baseball (they suck BAD) One of the reasons I prefer the STL sports scene, is all our stadiums are located downtown, where as KC's are in the burbs.
People: I have heard from other people that the people in KC are much friendlier than STL. I have never noticed this, but some say its true. I think people in both cities are pretty friendly.
Mass Transit: This is where STL is much better. They have a pretty good light rail system. To be able to really use it you need to live in the city or inner burbs. This is a huge plus for me because I like taking the metrolink to work, airport, The Loop, West End, etc. The metro plan is to eventually extend to the suburbs and put more lines in the city. KC does not have any kind of rail.
Theme parks: St Louis has Six Flags, KC has World of Fun. Both have water parks. Six Flags is much bigger and better than Worlds of Fun.
Family friendly stuff to do: I also think this is where St Louis takes the cake. There are so many FREE things to do for a family. There is the zoo, science center, city museum, magic house, Grants Farm, The Arch, Hidden Valley (skiing)
Someone from KC will have to help me regarding this topic
Education: Both cities have really bad city schools, but many suburban schools are top notch. There are a few good magnet schools in the city of STL, but a many children in the city go to private school. As for higher education, STL has the edge. We have Washington University, which is one of the best schools in the country. We also have Saint Louis University which is highly ranked, Webster University, Fontbonne, Lindenwood University and University of Missouri St Louis. There are a few other smaller schools, but they escape me right now.
KC has University of Missouri-KC, Rockhurst, and William Jewel. I am sure there are a lot more, these are the only ones I could think of.
Both cities have identical community college scenes. STL has St Louis Community College and St Charles Community College with 6 locations around the city. KC has Metropolitan Community College with I believe 5 locations. I have visited all of these for work, pretty much the same.
Shopping: Both cities have no shortage of the typical malls, ect. I think KC takes the edge because of the plaza. The plaza is an area in the city with tons of shops and restaurants. It's very nice and gorgeous around Christmas time. STL has plaza Frontenac, which is higher end shopping. We also have The Loop, which is my favorite place to shop. Lots of really cool shops, restaurants, movie theater, hotel, concert venue and actually is constantly named in the top 10 "Best streets in the country".
Arts: Kansas City has the KC Art Institute, so they have a very good arts scene for a medium size city. St Louis has several galleries as well as Grand Center, which has become the arts hub of STL.
Music: I do think STL has the edge here because of the Fox Theater in midtown. It really is the best place I have ever seen a show, absolutely gorgeous. We also have The Pageant which is on the loop. It's a pretty cool venue that plays smaller shows, think Modest Mouse. There is Verizon Wireless Amphitheater which holds the big shows, it seats 23,000. We also have the Muny which is the nations oldest and largest outdoor stage. They have plays and musicals all summer long, it is located in Forest Park and is fabulous. There are also little theaters scattered throughout the city for plays, concerts, etc.
Kansas City has The Sprint Center for their really big shows, located downtown, really cool building. A lot of their smaller shows are played in Uptown Theater, which is probably comparable to our Pageant. They are in the process of building a really gorgeous art center, not sure where it will be located, I'm thinking downtown.
Newspapers: I believe KC has the edge here. St Louis has the St Louis Post Dispatch, KC has the Kansas City star. I have friends that have worked as photographers for both papers, they say the KC star is a better paper. I personally haven't noticed a huge difference.
Crime: St Louis is worse for crime, but not much. STL gets a bad rap because of the most dangerous city list that comes out each year. But, what most people don't know is they stats are very skewed. In STL the city and county are split. When all those list are done they are only counting the city limits, the North side of the city tends to be pretty bad. In every other city they count the entire metropolitan area. I believe I read that if you counted St Louis like every other city, we wouldn't even be in the top 50 for crime. I've had friends mugged in both cities.
Neighborhoods: This is where I believe STL has a strong edge. We have really amazing neighborhoods that makes St Louis an awesome unique city. My personal favorites are: Downtown, Central West End, Soulard, Tower Grove, Shaw, Old North and St Louis Hills. My favorite thing to do on the weekend is to drive around the city and look at all the fabulous architecture. St Louis is a brick city, most of the city neighborhoods are all red brick and I love that.
KC also has amazing neighborhoods: Downtown, West Port, Hyde Park, Plaza and many more. Someone from KC will help you with that.
Parks:ST Louis has Forest Park which is one of the best parks in the country. Located within the park is the St Louis zoo, which is one of the best in the country, and is free. There is also the Modern Art Museum, Jewel Box, Missouri History Museum, and other buildings from the 1904 Worlds Fair. I don't think KC has anything that can compare to Forest Park, but I am sure they have great parks as well.
Downtown: The downtowns in both cities have gone from being awful to pretty cool places. Both cities have rehabbed many downtown buildings for lofts. KC now has about 15,000 downtown (I think) and STL is around 12,000. I believe both populations will continue to grow as more and more buildings are converted. I read that at one time STL had like 60-70 vacant buildings, there is now 8-9, half which are either in the process of being rehabbed or in the planning stages. Kansas City built a Power & Light district which is a huge development, covering many city blocks. There is a movie theater, grocery store, restaurants, bars, etc. It seems to be the place to be right now for locals. I personally hated it, but its just not my scene. They also have Rivermarket and Crossroads which are cool little areas. I have a couple friends that live downtown KC and really like it. St Louis has Washington Avenue and The Landing. Washington Avenue is lined with restaurants, bars, shops, gyms, etc. This is the center of the Loft district. The Landing is down on the riverfront. There is a huge new casino and Four Season Hotel. The streets are still brick and there are tons of little restaurants, clubs and bars. There is a new City Garden which has been nationally recognized for being a really great urban park with sculptures. The City Museum is also located downtown, I can guarantee there is nothing else like it in the midwest, if not country. There are now two grocery stores downtown, which was actually a big deal.
Airport: Both airports are in need of a face lift, they are starting to look dated. The STL airport is located right outside of the city limits, in a pretty central location. The metrolink goes right to it, which is very convenient for me. I actually really dislike KC's airport, its located kind of far out and you have to take a shuttle to get to the different sections.
Getting away: Both cities are located within 3 hours of the Lake of the Ozarks, which tends to be Missouris playground in the summer. STL has the edge here because of it's proximity to Chicago. It's very easy to take a weekend trip.
Overall: Overall I prefer St Louis, mostly because I love the vibe and I like to
take the metrolink to work. There is a huge urban renewal scene here and I like to be a part of that. People from KC are going to probably prefer KC and people from St Louis are going to prefer STL. Some say STL has a more Eastern feel, where KC has a Western feel. Both are medium size midwestern cities that are good places to call home. Both cities have a relatively low cost of living.
I am thinking a lot of the differences boils down to how developed the cities were in 1940? It would explain a lot of the differences in cultural amenities since newer cities tend to have less regardless of size, this is a reason why sunbelt cities tend to be viewed as bland since they are still settling in.
I am thinking the biggest stumbling block in St. Louis right now is the people (mainly the 40+ crowd) in their attitude. It ties into why the issues that are in some cases over 100 years old don't get resolved even though it would benifit everyone. Also isn't downtown St. Louis at a point where they have to start either building up or out since there aren't many more abondoned places to rehab but what direction would it spread out to?
You mention both cities in your post but then don't really specify where are those photos taken residential Kansas City or residential St. Louis? They look great!
It's St Louis, the first pics are Lafayette Square
As to StL's decline, some of the companies that formerly headquartered there but don't any more include TWA, Mallinckrodt, Famous-Barr/May, Southwestern Bell, Ralston Purina, and of course Anheuser-Busch. The airport is at least 1/3 empty. And as someone pointed out upthread, its population is getting older, I bet, more quickly than the national average.
StL will do all right on the basis of inertia, of having a decent-sized population base, and by midwestern standards will be ok compared to most other midwestern cities, but there's not much economic energy there, and hasn't been for a long, long time.
Missouri will be a sunbelt-type state when my aunt Ruth's pigs start flying. People leave Missouri for the sunbelt, for chances to succeed without it being important who your family is or, for pete's sake, which high school you went to. Missouri will almost certainly lose a congressman as a result of the current census-- it's not really shrinking like some midwestern states, but its growth hasn't remotely kept up with other places. Real sunbelt cities are loose, almost out of control, and everyone moved there last week. I know-- I'm a native Houstonian. You know I'm right-- look at all the Texas and Georgia license plates on St. Louis roads around Christmas-- they've come back to visit the family. In any case, sunbelt status is probably not a good thing to want, since sunbelt cities are way too spread out for the inevitable shocks in gasoline prices. Both KC and StL are too spread out now, but both may be somewhat better situated than, say, Houston or Dallas for $10/gallon gas.
As to StL's decline, some of the companies that formerly headquartered there but don't any more include TWA, Mallinckrodt, Famous-Barr/May, Southwestern Bell, Ralston Purina, and of course Anheuser-Busch. The airport is at least 1/3 empty. And as someone pointed out upthread, its population is getting older, I bet, more quickly than the national average.
StL will do all right on the basis of inertia, of having a decent-sized population base, and by midwestern standards will be ok compared to most other midwestern cities, but there's not much economic energy there, and hasn't been for a long, long time.
Missouri will be a sunbelt-type state when my aunt Ruth's pigs start flying. People leave Missouri for the sunbelt, for chances to succeed without it being important who your family is or, for pete's sake, which high school you went to. Missouri will almost certainly lose a congressman as a result of the current census-- it's not really shrinking like some midwestern states, but its growth hasn't remotely kept up with other places. Real sunbelt cities are loose, almost out of control, and everyone moved there last week. I know-- I'm a native Houstonian. You know I'm right-- look at all the Texas and Georgia license plates on St. Louis roads around Christmas-- they've come back to visit the family. In any case, sunbelt status is probably not a good thing to want, since sunbelt cities are way too spread out for the inevitable shocks in gasoline prices. Both KC and StL are too spread out now, but both may be somewhat better situated than, say, Houston or Dallas for $10/gallon gas.
On losing a congressman it is really unsure as of the last year, and likely would be the last one. And basing an areas health on the basis of corporate HQ's is questionable since it gets people depending on to few businesses, it depends on if new companies will appear and replace them over time. In terms of provincialism reasons, that is liekly to go away with the baby boomers who are the biggest shackle to growth and I completly agree with you on it being a problem particularly in St. Louis. In terms of people leaving, most of it happened years ago and over time lessens. That and many tend to return years later. A big reason for slow growth is also few immigrants legal and illegal.
The $10/gallon gas scenario is so unlikely for at least a decade, unless overall inflation takes off which would make it not that much relative to everything else. At that point alternatives would of appeared or the US became militaristic and just colonized the Middle East in anger.
A lot of the companies you have listed above were bought out and names changed and still have major presence in the STL area (not all) Not sure where you got Purina, there headquarters are still here. I have a friend that studies the STL area tax base for her job. STL city business tax base has GROWN. In the news you hear about the companies that have left or been bought out but, there are a lot of companies that have moved employees to the area. For instance, Wellsfargo Advisors moved positions from all over the country and have made STL their headquarters. There are several others, but I don't have the time right now to research.
St Louis is home to 19 Fortune 1000 companies. Missouri ranks 16th in the US for Fortune 500 headquarters, St Louis is home to 9 out of the 11 headquarters.
As for the airport, Southwest keeps the East Terminal very busy. The main terminal is definitely underused. Unfortunately American really did a number when they bought TWA. Hopefully we will secure the Chinese hub, therefore utilizing the entire airport.
As for the aging workforce, I haven't seen any evidence in either direction. I can't imagine STL workforce aging faster than any other medium size mid western city. Just in my own experience, I live in the city and see tons of young people moving in from all over the country.
A lot of the companies you have listed above were bought out and names changed and still have major presence in the STL area (not all) Not sure where you got Purina, there headquarters are still here. I have a friend that studies the STL area tax base for her job. STL city business tax base has GROWN. In the news you hear about the companies that have left or been bought out but, there are a lot of companies that have moved employees to the area. For instance, Wellsfargo Advisors moved positions from all over the country and have made STL their headquarters. There are several others, but I don't have the time right now to research.
St Louis is home to 19 Fortune 1000 companies. Missouri ranks 16th in the US for Fortune 500 headquarters, St Louis is home to 9 out of the 11 headquarters.
As for the airport, Southwest keeps the East Terminal very busy. The main terminal is definitely underused. Unfortunately American really did a number when they bought TWA. Hopefully we will secure the Chinese hub, therefore utilizing the entire airport.
As for the aging workforce, I haven't seen any evidence in either direction. I can't imagine STL workforce aging faster than any other medium size mid western city. Just in my own experience, I live in the city and see tons of young people moving in from all over the country.
I think in the aging population it is mainly in the blue-collar jobs that are still around. The issue is a large percentage of the jobs are held by people in their 50's and many young people aren't interested in those jobs. I remember the paper noted that the total workforce is expected to shrink later this decade due to larger numbers of people retiring but less entering working-age years. This is acutally going to be an issue in a lot of cities with babyboomers retiring, someways good news for St. Louis since that is the last generation to hold really provincial views that hold back the region in my opinion. My biggest worry over time is there won't be enough plumbers, electricians, and the like to fill future needs if such a large number approach retirement. Those jobs can't be outsourced and are needed everywhere.
To the person who mentioned Phoenix, KC is more like Phoenix than you may think.
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