Is Cleveland Midwest or East (Green, Mount Vernon: 2015, city hall, to rent)

[LINative]

Originally Posted by 585WNY

I'm of the unpopular opinion that Cleveland is the one city located within a Midwestern state that belongs to the Northeast.

Downtown Cleveland actually reminds me a great deal of a larger Downtown Buffalo. The layout of parts of Euclid Ave and Superior Ave look nearly identical to Main Street in Buffalo minus the light rail line. The area immediately surrounding Public Square remind me of Market Square in Pittsburgh with elements of Buffalo's Lafayette Square. The housing stock of Cleveland's neighborhoods are closer to those found in Buffalo and Rochester than most Midwestern cities. The only city in the Midwest I'd put Cleveland alongside is Detroit, but they're not nearly as comparable.

I don't think your opinion is that unpopular. I have seen people on the Ohio forum asking the same question.

I am not from that area but all you have to do is look at satellite views of Ohio to understand why some people are asking this question. For instance, west of Cleveland is more farmland with less forest while directly east of Cleveland is much more forest.

Having said that, I usually group regions by state boundaries. But practically every region in the country has at least some cultural or geographic crossover into other regions. Regions tend to blend into each other. So in other words, while I would group Ohio with her fellow Midwest states, I can see an argument that she probably has more in common with Pennsylvania than say Iowa.

And its true that Ohio is pretty far east. Ohio borders Pennsylvania and West Virginia and is close to New York and Maryland. Plus if you draw a line south of Ohio you will cross into Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida - all southeast states that border the Atlantic Ocean.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

Cleveland, I'll agree, is the most Northeast seeming Midwest city, but it is Midwestern. Especially once you start comparing the suburbs of Cleveland and Buffalo, Cleveland's suburbs are distinctly Midwestern...Cleveland is Midwestern with a Northeast flavor...

How so?

[ferraris]

Yeah I'm a little puzzled by the comment about Cleveland's suburbs being "distinctly midwestern". Cleveland is one of a handful of cities in the region that have a number of suburbs with a significant black middle class. There's also a large Jewish population, which is particularly similar to parts of the Northeast. And there's a culture, if you can call it that, of high taxes. None of those things strike me as Midwestern...quite the opposite, actually.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Yeah I'm a little puzzled by the comment about Cleveland's suburbs being "distinctly midwestern". Cleveland is one of a handful of cities in the region that have a number of suburbs with a significant black middle class. There's also a large Jewish population, which is particularly similar to parts of the Northeast. And there's a culture, if you can call it that, of high taxes. None of those things strike me as Midwestern...quite the opposite, actually.

Right I thought along those lines too. Not to mention the east side suburbs. Shaker Heights is remarkably similar to Newton MA/Brookline MA. Chagrin Falls is also a town transplanted directly out of New England (smaller Portsmouth NH, only with a waterfall). Hunting Valley, Gates Mills also have a feel of eastern old money. Cleveland Heights too, streetcar suburb with a lot of distinct backgrounds and cultures there. University Heights too is kinda a mix of Shaker and Cleveland Heights. Lakewood is the densest city in the state. Other towns on Erie have a distinct lake vibe to them that other midwestern places simply don't have. Go to the south, you have a giant national park, that again, other places don't have. Not to mention a whole other city, Akron, is down there too, where in other midwestern cities, you'd just be reaching the far flung exurbs. So yeah, I don't see it as "typical midwestern" in the least.

[WRnative]

Much of northern Ohio was founded by New Englanders, many from Connecticut. A large swath of northern Ohio was the Connecticut Western Reserve, land that Connecticut retained even after relinquishing much of its western land claims in exchange for the new U.S. government assuming its Revolutionary War debt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connec...estern_Reserve

This historical foundation is certainly reflected in northern Ohio's physical appearance, its linguistics, its culture and its politics. On this base, influences from massive waves of migration, including the Irish, Germans, Poles, Hungarians, Finnish, Italians and Croatians, and other Europeans, Africans Americans during the Great Migration, Puerto Ricans, and others. All were attracted by job demand from burgeoning industries, or in the case of the Finnish, demand for port and Great Lakes shipping workers. Cleveland at one point was the most cosmopolitan city in the nation, with more languages (I believe 88) as the primary language at home based on census polls than any other city in the U.S. It was perhaps the fourth largest city of Hungarian speakers in the world.

The history of Cleveland's various ethnic groups can be explored here:

https://case.edu/ech/articles/h/hungarians/

Cleveland's ethnic history is celebrated by the Cleveland Cultural Gardens, which helps, along with many ethnic celebrations and ethnic cultural centers, helps maintain the ethnic group identity in Cleveland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevel...ltural_Gardens

Cleveland has both a distinctive Asia Town (with strong Chinese, Vietnamese, and Korean influences), and its Little Italy is now one of the best in the U.S., as larger Italian neighborhoods, such as in New York City, have lost their cultural cohesion. Many original Italian immigrants came to Cleveland as stone cutters, fulfilling the demands of Cleveland's great industrialists, including John D. Rockefeller, for residences and monuments in Lake View Cemetery, Cleveland's great Victorian Cemetery and arboretum. Little Italy is adjacent to Lave View.

Cleveland's large German and African American communities created a love for both classical and jazz music, which coalesced into a unrivaled fascination with rock 'n roll. Cleveland became home of one of the world's greatest orchestras, and was the breakout city for rock 'n roll among whites in the North. The first rock concert was in Cleveland, the term rock 'n roll for the music genre was coined in Cleveland.

https://case.edu/ech/articles/h/hruby-family/

The Sound of Applause: Hruby Family Orchestra | WVIZ/PBS ideastream

In Cleveland's 'second downtown,' jazz once filled the air: Elegant Cleveland | cleveland.com

https://case.edu/ech/articles/r/rock-n-roll/

When a national search for a home for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum began, Clevelanders overwhelmed a national poll of where the hall should be located. The city's political and business leadership, often raised on rock 'n roll, outbid every other city for the hall, and offered both a prime location and demanded an iconic building.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_a...l_Hall_of_Fame

Today, Cleveland has arguably the best orchestra in the U.S., with not only one of the nation's most acclaimed concert halls, but also arguably the best summer classic music venue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/a...egie-hall.html

CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK; No, They Didn't Take Away That Hall's Lovely Sound - The New York Times


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV73GP97v4s

Blossom Music Center is located within the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.

Blossom Facilities

Greater Cleveland is home to two of the nation's best music conservatories -- the Cleveland Institute of Music, located nearby the Cleveland Orchestra in University Circle, and at Oberlin College. Oberlin has one of the nation's best jazz music conservatories.

Jazz students get stunning new home in Kohl Building at Oberlin Conservatory of Music | cleveland.com

Oberlin well illustrates the strong New England moral and political influences in Greater Cleveland. It was the first college in the U.S. to admit both African Americans and it was the first coeducational college in the U.S. Oberlin was a hotbed of abolition sentiment during the Civil War period.

Oberlin College - Ohio History Central

Oberlin and several other locations in Greater Cleveland were key terminals on the Underground Railroad.

The Oberlin-Wellington Rescue pitted the local community against U.S. marshals in a successful effort to free an escaped slave. The event, though largely unknown today, much like John Brown's seizure of the Harper's Ferry armory, helped set the U.S. firmly on a course towards Civil War. Brown was raised in northeast Ohio.

<<Feelings had run high in Ohio in the aftermath of Price's rescue. When the federal jury issued its indictments, state authorities arrested the federal marshal, his deputies, and other men involved in John Price's detention. After negotiations, state officials agreed to release the arresting officials, while federal officials agreed to release 35 of the men indicted.>>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberlin–Wellington_Rescue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B...%29#Early_life

Progressive thought transcended the Civil War in Cleveland, culminating in the election of James A. Garfield as President. See post 6 here:

James A. Garfield story tonight on PBS American Experience

Tom Johnson, one of the most acclaimed mayors in American history, launched Cleveland into the 20th century, helping define what a great American city should be in the modern era. Johnson empowered William Stinchcomb, who in a half century created Cleveland's renown metro (county) park system, which helped inspire and make possible the establishment of the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which incorporates parts of the Cleveland Metroparks. Stinchcomb enlisted the services of the Olmsted Brothers, the famed Boston landscape design firm.

Tom Johnson

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/...iam-stinchcomb

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index..._system_n.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevel...oparks#History

The Cleveland Progressive and civic traditions, more typical of New England, are much more prominent than in other parts of the Midwest, including in southern Ohio.

One of the distinctive physical characteristics of Greater Cleveland are town squares, including the large Public Square in the heart of downtown Cleveland. This certainly reflects the sensibilities of the New England founders. See pages 2 and 22 in this thread.

Best places with active town squares

Much of these same influences were evident in the other great cities of the upper Midwest, especially considering Cleveland's prominence as the nation's sixth largest city in the early 20th century.

[j_ws]

Cleveland, in a lot of ways, does remind me of the Northeast (I grew up between Philly and NYC). I think there is also a distinction between New England/Upstate NY and the PA-NJ-NY area. The proliferation of single-family housing, or detached duplexes, within the urban core is a component that betrays the otherwise Northeastern feel and is definitely very different from mid-Atlantic towns and cities of PA and NJ. Cleveland is definitely more New England than Mid-Atlantic. It's kind of like Providence. The density of cities and even small towns in PA which are all largely composed of very dense housing and rowhouses, is very different from how a lot of Cleveland is composed.

For example, Cleveland does not have much of this type of housing:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5987...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6033...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6196...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6243...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2781...7i13312!8i6656

The above are all smaller cities, too. Phildelphia is very much a heavily scaled-up Allentown.

Even the hill towns are notably dense:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8310...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8634...7i13312!8i6656

The above differences in vernaculars are probably due to age. Eastern PA was built up generally earlier and for less wealthy residents.

I think Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights feel like any comparable garden suburb of the time. You could drop me there and tell me I was in a Main Line town north of Philly and I'd believe it. The only components that Main Line suburbs have that these don't are the typical high-density PA vernacular style along commuter rail lines (But Boston suburbs are like this too).

[Urban Peasant]

Moses Cleaveland himself was a New Englander from Connecticut. There had to have been New England influence even from the start.

[Vanderbiltgrad]

Cleveland does not remind me of anything on the East Coast. I lived in NYC and Boston and they are nothing like Cleveland. Cleveland I hear is like Baltimore in many ways but I don't see it.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Vanderbiltgrad

Cleveland does not remind me of anything on the East Coast. I lived in NYC and Boston and they are nothing like Cleveland. Cleveland I hear is like Baltimore in many ways but I don't see it.

If you have lived in New England at all though, it would involve some mental gymnastics to not notice at least some similarities in some places. Of course demographically, Cleveland doesn't match New England so much (more Slavs and blacks, most noticeably). Without the row homes, I don't see Cleveland as very similar to Philadelphia and Baltimore aesthetically, but I get a similar vibe kinda from them (those two places seem way more Clevelandy than Boston for example). But I think Providence is the best comparison.

Cleveland is kinda like if you mushed Providence RI, Worcester MA, and Manchester NH together.

[Clevelander17]

Cleveland's eastern suburbs have a Northeastern feel.