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I think there are alot of issues at play to consider when looking in West Park and when believing claims that houses fly off the market when put up for sale there.
In 2009, when the supreme court upheld the decision to axe Cleveland employee's residency requirement, it did have an impact. There isn't a mass flood of employees selling however because the decision came at a time when the housing economy was already in the tank. Numerous people would have to sell at a massive loss on what they still owe and many just can't afford that. But if you look at the houses that have sold over the past 2 years in West Park you will see that most still are selling at considerable losses from what they were bought at as far back as the 1990's. To me that's not a good investment no matter how well intentioned you are.
Now to the issue why some houses seem to be selling quickly. This may just be a select street by street phenomenon. West Park is still very nice, particulary around St. Joe's. With the severely tightened credit markets, West Park has become attractive (maybe by default) to young middle class buyers because they can atually get a house on a nice street with over 1400 sq ft and with an actual yard for under $140,000, which to this day isn't likely to happen in areas like Rocky River, Westlake, Bay Village or Fairview Park.
My advice would be if you look to buy in West Park you should be in it for the long haul because you probably aren't going to get your money back if you try to sell in 5 to 10 years. IMO, the only good buy for someone lookin in WP who might possibly move in 5 to 10 years is a bank owned home selling at a steep discount.
I think there are alot of issues at play to consider when looking in West Park and when believing claims that houses fly off the market when put up for sale there.
In 2009, when the supreme court upheld the decision to axe Cleveland employee's residency requirement, it did have an impact. There isn't a mass flood of employees selling however because the decision came at a time when the housing economy was already in the tank. Numerous people would have to sell at a massive loss on what they still owe and many just can't afford that. But if you look at the houses that have sold over the past 2 years in West Park you will see that most still are selling at considerable losses from what they were bought at as far back as the 1990's. To me that's not a good investment no matter how well intentioned you are.
Now to the issue why some houses seem to be selling quickly. This may just be a select street by street phenomenon. West Park is still very nice, particulary around St. Joe's. With the severely tightened credit markets, West Park has become attractive (maybe by default) to young middle class buyers because they can atually get a house on a nice street with over 1400 sq ft and with an actual yard for under $140,000, which to this day isn't likely to happen in areas like Rocky River, Westlake, Bay Village or Fairview Park.
My advice would be if you look to buy in West Park you should be in it for the long haul because you probably aren't going to get your money back if you try to sell in 5 to 10 years. IMO, the only good buy for someone lookin in WP who might possibly move in 5 to 10 years is a bank owned home selling at a steep discount.
Bank-owned (REO) or a short-sale from a distressed owner. As to your point about ''flying-off the market" I know of one home, north of Lorain on the west side of Rocky River Dr., that has been on the market for a long-time with the list price dropping below 100k; this is a loss for the owner and I don't know if this is, or will be, a short-sale or not.
Bank-owned (REO) or a short-sale from a distressed owner. As to your point about ''flying-off the market" I know of one home, north of Lorain on the west side of Rocky River Dr., that has been on the market for a long-time with the list price dropping below 100k; this is a loss for the owner and I don't know if this is, or will be, a short-sale or not.
I spend a lot of time researching properties and I rarely see houses in West Park selling at a gain from their previous purchase price. I looked at home (North of Lorain west of R. River) a beautifully maintained 4 bedroom colonial with all new windows, freshly painted, walk up finished attic - basically move in ready. The family obviously had children due to a jungle gym in the back and the toys in bedroom. The house was purchased for $120,000 in 2000. It is listed for $119,900 today.
Another home I saw (North of Lorain and off of R. River Dr. just east) was purchased in 2003 for $147,000. The current owners have redone the kitchen (2009) and bathrooms, built a nice deck, put up a new garage (2007) and generally have made the house move in ready. Again, a home obviously where children live. On the market for $149,900. So basically they spent over $40,000 in remodeling to TRY and sell at the same price thy paid for it 8 years ago.
And my final example. A house just south of lorain and east off R.River dr. Purchased in 2001 for $132,000. To save time I'll include the exact details from the listing - New Updates Include: ( Windows- Vinyl Siding- Waterproofing- Roof- 36x26 Three Car Garage w/ huge 2nd floor storage bulit 4 years ago- Electrical- Privacy Fence- Glass Block Windows- Kitchen- Bathrooms- Wood Floors Newly Refinished- Blown-in Insulation- Plumbing- Furnace- Central Air- Carpeting- Paint- Landscaping etc... ) They basically rebuilt the whole house and it looked great. Keep in mind the lumber and materials for a 36X26 garage costs $10,000 easy before its even put up. And you have to pour a pad for it which is probably $3000 minimum. That's not even considering the numerous other updates. House originally listed for $189,900 in 2010. Sold OVER a year later for $159,900.
Now I feel like I'm ripping the area and I'm not. It still is a wonderful neighborhood. I'm just trying to give examples (without giving addresses to someone's house) of people losing their shirt in West Park. If it were me it would have to be a whale of a deal (short sale/bank owned) to buy there today. This shouldn't be a rush decision you make solely off being able to save 70 basis points (0.7 %) on your taxes every year. IMO, these aren't fixer-uppers like in Tremont 15 years ago that you can make a bundle off of 12 years later. West Park never was a bad area in need of revitalizing.
Last edited by ECBeastor; 09-28-2011 at 03:35 PM..
I spend a lot of time researching properties and I rarely see houses in West Park selling at a gain from their previous purchase price. I looked at home (North of Lorain west of R. River) a beautifully maintained 4 bedroom colonial with all new windows, freshly painted, walk up finished attic - basically move in ready. The family obviously had children due to a jungle gym in the back and the toys in bedroom. The house was purchased for $120,000 in 2000. It is listed for $119,900 today.
Another home I saw (North of Lorain and off of R. River Dr. just east) was purchased in 2003 for $147,000. The current owners have redone the kitchen (2009) and bathrooms, built a nice deck, put up a new garage (2007) and generally have made the house move in ready. Again, a home obviously where children live. On the market for $149,900. So basically they spent over $40,000 in remodeling to TRY and sell at the same price thy paid for it 8 years ago.
And my final example. A house just south of lorain and east off R.River dr. Purchased in 2001 for $132,000. To save time I'll include the exact details from the listing - New Updates Include: ( Windows- Vinyl Siding- Waterproofing- Roof- 36x26 Three Car Garage w/ huge 2nd floor storage bulit 4 years ago- Electrical- Privacy Fence- Glass Block Windows- Kitchen- Bathrooms- Wood Floors Newly Refinished- Blown-in Insulation- Plumbing- Furnace- Central Air- Carpeting- Paint- Landscaping etc... ) They basically rebuilt the whole house and it looked great. Keep in mind the lumber and materials for a 36X26 garage costs $10,000 easy before its even put up. And you have to pour a pad for it which is probably $3000 minimum. That's not even considering the numerous other updates. House originally listed for $189,900 in 2010. Sold OVER a year later for $159,900.
Now I feel like I'm ripping the area and I'm not. It still is a wonderful neighborhood. I'm just trying to give examples (without giving addresses to someone's house) of people losing their shirt in West Park. If it were me it would have to be a whale of a deal (short sale/bank owned) to buy there today. This shouldn't be a rush decision you make solely off being able to save 70 basis points (0.7 %) on your taxes every year. IMO, these aren't fixer-uppers like in Tremont 15 years ago that you can make a bundle off of 12 years later. West Park never was a bad area in need of revitalizing.
When I mentioned that West Park/Kamms was changing and not for the better, I got into with Peregrine. Like you, I wasn't bashing the area, just stating what I noticed. The housing prices in WP speak for themselves.
that you seem to HAVE TO PROVE YOUR POINT , about Cleveland Proper.
Now I know people feel different today on , 30 year mortgage , and that
most people just agree to that term , just to get the loan . and that is
the problem that started (imo) the housing mess .
The very ideal that triple your home value is a goal that is possible within
a few years here in this market , is just plan crazy.
If one wants to build equity, pay on your principle not on this false promise of greater home value .
The fact the housing prices , have fallen all around this county and
other counties adjecent to Cuyahoga does not mean all is bad .
It is like the stock market correcting it self . people lose money
on speculation . The only true money is the money you pay back
on your loan .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
When I mentioned that West Park/Kamms was changing and not for the better, I got into with Peregrine. Like you, I wasn't bashing the area, just stating what I noticed. The housing prices in WP speak for themselves.
Another home I saw (North of Lorain and off of R. River Dr. just east) was purchased in 2003 for $147,000. The current owners have redone the kitchen (2009) and bathrooms, built a nice deck, put up a new garage (2007) and generally have made the house move in ready. Again, a home obviously where children live. On the market for $149,900. So basically they spent over $40,000 in remodeling to TRY and sell at the same price thy paid for it 8 years ago.
This has happened every where, though. From Maine to California. 2003 was pre housing crash.
You going to tell me someone that bought a 140,000 home in North Olmsted pre-crash, put 40K into, is now selling for 180,000?
North Olmsted home sales
I'll be the first to admit I got screwed in the housing crash.
I bought my house pre-crash. Even paid a premium for it because it was in incredible condition.
I lost a lot of value. I know that.
But so did everyone else.
As for housing not being on the market long.... I am just going by what I see in my south of Lorain neighborhood. Houses sell quickly unless they are really expensive. 2 houses on my street sold in less then 3 months. Even Westparks' resident cheerleader, me, was surprised by that. Even a pretty pricey one at the east corner of Bradgate and Rocky River sold in less the 6 months. I see them flip quickly all over the area.
Meanwhile I see homes in Lakewood sitting for 12+ months on the market.
Generally speaking, of course. I have no doubt anyone can cite examples of me being wrong on that. But overall....
Last edited by Peregrine; 09-29-2011 at 07:52 AM..
I think everyone can agree that a large portion of Cleveland proper has taken a turn for the worse (or even more worse) over the past 10 years. I also think we can all agree that home values have dropped nationwide since 2006. But if you go to the link above you will see a comparison of the average pice per square ft of homes sold in Kamm's vs. Cleveland Proper as a whole. The gap is narrowing. In 2000 it was $80 sq ft in Kamm's vs. $50 sq ft in CLeveland as a whole. Today in 2011 it is $65 per sq ft in Kamm's vs $50 per sq ft in Cleveland proper. That tells me the gap between Kamm's and the rest of Cleveland is getting smaller and that isn't what I like to see. That means its much more accessible to undesirables, it means more homeowners will turn to rent their properties rather than sell at a loss. It means people have a choice of W. 95th vs w 157th at a much closer pice than 10 years ago. Where would you pick?
The same types of things happened in the neighborhoods off of West Blvd 20-30 years ago. Magnificent homes line West Blvd all the way up to the junction at W. 105th. And the streets off West Blvd were always decent middle class neighborhoods up through the 1980's. Homeowners clung to their neighboorhood for various reason's (comfort, not wanting sell at what they perceive is below value, etc.) until they are deceased or are put in nursing homes and the family takes over the house. The family has no desire to move into the neighborhood so they either a.) sell as fast as possible at a deep discount likely or they b.) turn to rent it. With the rental market flooded they often turn to Section 8 to fill vacancies. And you get the idea. It's already clearly happening on the streets off Triskett and the streets off R. River drive south of Lorain especially as you get close to Puritas.
The one good thing for West Park is their aren't a high concentration of duplexes. But I think you will see an even further fractioning of that neighboorhood with realtors steering people to the smaller pocket North of Lorain and West of W. 150th. That may even get smaller with time to say west of W. 159th and north of Lorain.
Anyhow, on to another topic brought up by the previous poster. They are right about paying down the principle balance. Making even an extra 10% payment every month saves tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands in the long run. But the tendancy of a high percentage of buyers is to buy as expensive/big/nice as possible and once they get more money they upgrade to the biggest/nicest/most expensive possible again It still is that way but now lenders aren't giving the buyer the chance to spend as crazily as 5 years ago. It's just the culture we now live in, buy everything on credit and save almost nothing. The thought process has now become "how much will I qualify for" vs. "How much can I afford and remain to live the way I currently do?" Everyone has to have the newest everything and so many are stretched as thin as possible. What was considered basic neccessity 45 years ago is not the same as today. Food costs as a percentage of income are at all time lows yet people haven't got any disposable income to save because they need a need a new cell phone every 6 months, a new leather couch every 4 years, a new 52" LCD tv every 5 years, a new car every 5 years(2 per family minimum), a different pair of $150 shoes for every different activity you partake in, and $1,200 jungle gyms for their kids and $300 video game consoles with 30 games at $40 each.
Last edited by ECBeastor; 09-29-2011 at 12:09 PM..
that you seem to HAVE TO PROVE YOUR POINT , about Cleveland Proper.
Now I know people feel different today on , 30 year mortgage , and that
most people just agree to that term , just to get the loan . and that is
the problem that started (imo) the housing mess .
The very ideal that triple your home value is a goal that is possible within
a few years here in this market , is just plan crazy.
If one wants to build equity, pay on your principle not on this false promise of greater home value .
The fact the housing prices , have fallen all around this county and
other counties adjecent to Cuyahoga does not mean all is bad .
It is like the stock market correcting it self . people lose money
on speculation . The only true money is the money you pay back
on your loan .
There's not much ''true money'' when you pay back on your loan of $150,000 and your home is worth $90,000.00
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