Cleveland becoming Chicagoish? (Lakewood, Euclid, Cleveland Heights: schools, tax, rail)

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by pritesh23

Just had to respond. I've lived in Chicago and have recently moved to Cleveland. Cleveland will never be like Chicago.

And San Diego or Phoenix will never be LA.

And Philly will never be New York City.

And Oklahoma City will never be like Dallas.

And Charlotte will never be like Atlanta.

Doesn't mean they don't share many similar qualities at least in terms of neighborhood life once due to being in the same region of the country you look beyond the aspects that ANY really large city is going to have in its downtown.

Honestly, personally I think once you get beyond the near north side (Magnificent Mile/River North/Gold Coast, etc.) which feels more like New York (but with more modern buildings) I would say much of Chicagos neighborhoods resembles Clevelands neighborhoods - both good and bad - and more of them.

[TBideon]

I dunno. Maybe you could draw a few parallels with Andersonville and Lakewood/Coventry or Wicker Park with Tremont/Ohio City on some level, but even that's a stretch. Parts of the west loop can be parallel to st clair/55th. Chicago's Chinatown to Cleveland's Little Italy. Rogers Park to the Case campus/university circle/coventry....I'm not sure about that one...

Oh, and of course Melt and Kumas Corner. My roommate agrees - that's a good comparison

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by TBideon

I dunno. Maybe you could draw a few parallels with Andersonville and Lakewood/Coventry or Wicker Park with Tremont/Ohio City on some level, but even that's a stretch. Parts of the west loop can be parallel to st clair/55th. Chicago's Chinatown to Cleveland's Little Italy. Rogers Park to the Case campus/university circle/coventry....I'm not sure about that one...

Oh, and of course Melt and Kumas Corner. My roommate agrees - that's a good comparison

I've been to Cleveland really only once, but I tried to check out as much of the areas as possible in the little I had.

I would say Tremont/Ohio City is like a Wicker Park/Logan Square in its earlier stages. Both areas are classic urban neighborhoods with an ethnically diverse, eclectic/funky vibe. As Cleveland takes steps to reclaim its former vitality those areas will be more Wicker Park/Logan Square-like.

I thought the Edgewater neighborhood/Lakewood felt a little like Evanston/far north Chicago, but turned on its side and again, in its "early stages."

I would say the Warehouse District/6th St. felt more like Chicagos West Loop. Chicagos Chinatown beats Clevelands Asiatown, but Clevelands little Italy beats Chicagos little Italy.

I thought University Circle felt a little more like Chicagos DePaul area or maybe even better Chicagos Hyde Park.

However much of the east side of Clevelands seemed a lot like much of Chicagos south side. Hopefully both can see better days in the future.

Cleveland Heights feels a lot like Oak Park/Forest Park/River Forest (close in historic suburb where I live until the end of the month (I'm moving to LA after the New Years!).

Chicago will always be larger, and get more attention. But in other regions of the country, many smaller cities get as much love as the largest city, if not more.

Many people prefer San Diego to LA. Prefer Vegas or San Francisco or Seattle, to LA, even though LA is a lot bigger.

Likewise many, if not most people prefer Austin to Dallas or Houston.

Point is, is that in Texas or California for example many prefer the smaller cities.

The second take home point with that is, is that the smaller midwestern cities should get back their swagger and claim that "we have a lot of what Chicago has, but with a less congestion, crowds, and lower cost of living. " Chicago all the time says this with reference to NYC.

Now if Chicago a city of 2.7 million in a metro area of 9.5 million, can claim to offer a similar city experience, just with less traffic, cheaper, more laid back, etc. than NYC, a city of 8 million in the city, and 22 million in the metro, then there is NO REASON AT ALL, why Clevelanders, or Detroiters, of Cincinnatians can't claim the same comared to Chicago.

[TBideon]

If you look at Lakeview 35 years ago or Wicker Park/Bucktown 25 yrs ago, and now at them today, I think you'll agree anything is possible. But I still don't understand people making comparissons; I mean, barring another industrial revolution/miracle centered in Cleveland, it will never be a Chicago. We are 60 years late to that party. Now if we can get some good leadership and good paying jobs, then Cleveland can be a great city all the same.
But a Chicago? It would take a serious sequence of events for that to happen

[Mr216]

Originally Posted by Kamms

You're kidding, right? What black neighborhoods are gentrifying (please don't use the cliche Bronzeville)? When did the reverse migration start given the 2010 census and the 9.7% Chicago metro unemployment.

One area Cleveland is becoming Chicagoish is in the loss of its black population.

Yes and they're all going to Euclid! lol

EDIT: and Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Bedford Heights, South Euclid, Richmond Heights, and Willoughby Hills lol

Black population here climbs to 45 percent - Cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011...ew_migrat.html

[TBideon]

I still have family in Maple Heights; what's happened to that suburb in the last 15 years is absolutely heartbreaking.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

I've been to Cleveland really only once, but I tried to check out as much of the areas as possible in the little I had.

I would say Tremont/Ohio City is like a Wicker Park/Logan Square in its earlier stages. Both areas are classic urban neighborhoods with an ethnically diverse, eclectic/funky vibe. As Cleveland takes steps to reclaim its former vitality those areas will be more Wicker Park/Logan Square-like.

I thought the Edgewater neighborhood/Lakewood felt a little like Evanston/far north Chicago, but turned on its side and again, in its "early stages."

See, this is what has always bugged me about Cleveland. Did you know that Ohio City gentrification/revitalization has been going on since the 1970s? Yes, really, for that long. Yet, to an outsider who comes from a city where neighborhoods have truly transformed, sometimes almost overnight, it appears that the neighborhood is merely in the "early stages" of renewal.

Cleveland is like the friend you love dearly, yet at the same time you want to smack them upside the head for making the same mistakes over and over, and never learning from them. You want to give that friend a good shaking and ask them, "When the heck are you going to get your life together?"

I've heard about Cleveland's much-vaunted "comeback" since the early 1980s, yet it's always perpetually stuck in its "early stages" and appears to peter out time and time again. It's like you can see that Cleveland has great potential, and some good things going on, but you wait around and wait around for it to "reclaim its former vitality", but for some reason it never quite gets there... until one day you realize you're not getting any younger, so you choose to jump ship and leave town for a city that already has all that full-fledged urban vitality and goodness you waited so long and hard to experience. That's why I moved to Chicago in 1995.

Maybe this time it really is different. But I'm skeptical.

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by andrew61

See, this is what has always bugged me about Cleveland. Did you know that Ohio City gentrification/revitalization has been going on since the 1970s? Yes, really, for that long. Yet, to an outsider who comes from a city where neighborhoods have truly transformed, sometimes almost overnight, it appears that the neighborhood is merely in the "early stages" of renewal.

Cleveland is like the friend you love dearly, yet at the same time you want to smack them upside the head for making the same mistakes over and over, and never learning from them. You want to give that friend a good shaking and ask them, "When the heck are you going to get your life together?"

I've heard about Cleveland's much-vaunted "comeback" since the early 1980s, yet it's always perpetually stuck in its "early stages" and appears to peter out time and time again. It's like you can see that Cleveland has great potential, and some good things going on, but you wait around and wait around for it to "reclaim its former vitality", but for some reason it never quite gets there... until one day you realize you're not getting any younger, so you choose to jump ship and leave town for a city that already has all that full-fledged urban vitality and goodness you waited so long and hard to experience. That's why I moved to Chicago in 1995.

Maybe this time it really is different. But I'm skeptical.

Well at least I'll defend Ohio City, which has been shot up more in the past 1 year than in the previous 10.

Here are some examples of additions (and announcements) for 2011:

Significant Projects 2011-2012
60-bed hostel -- $500,000 More on tap than beer in Ohio City; 60-bed hostel signs lease near Cleveland's West Side Market | cleveland.com
Franklin Castle renovation into residential units, and carriage house Condemned Franklin Castle is sold, may have new life yet: Michael K. McIntyre's Tipoff (gallery) | cleveland.com
Cleveland Museum of Art Transformer Station -- $7.5 Million The Cleveland Museum of Art and the Fred and Laura Bidwell Foundation join forces to create the Transformer Station gallery in Ohio City | cleveland.com
Near West Intergenerational Charter School Near West Intergenerational charter school to open this year after push from parents | cleveland.com
Market Square Park -- $1.5 Million market square park to undergo $1.5M makeover
Westside Market renovations http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...s_to_be_c.html

Retail 2011-2012:
Maggies’s Vegan Bakery new vegan bakery rises in ohio city's ever-expanding market district
Campell’s Popcorn and Sweets campbell's popcorn and sweets opens in ohio city's ever-expanding foodie district
Mitchell’s Ice Cream Shop, Headquarters, and Kitchen -- $2 Million Mitchell's Ice Cream to buy former nightclub spot, move headquarters and kitchen into Cleveland | cleveland.com
Urban Orchid urban orchid adds flowershop to ohio city's artisan economy
Johnnyville Slugger new ohio city storefront johnnyville slugger to fabricate custom baseball bats
Market Garden Brewery -- $3 Million Sam McNulty's Market Garden Brewery & Distillery embraces, enhances Ohio City | cleveland.com
Salty Not Sweet Salty Not Sweet moves into Ohio City's SoLo neighborhood | cleveland.com
The Rag Refinery ohio city's new rag refinery offers vintage and recycled threads
Palookaville Chili ohio city's artisan economy turns the corner onto lorain
Open Yoga Gallery ohio city's artisan economy turns the corner onto lorain
SoHo Kitchen and Bar SoHo Coming to Ohio City | Scene and Heard: Scene's News Blog
Alaturka Turkish Restaurant Ohio City's New Turkish Restaurant — Alaturka | Scene and Heard: Scene's News Blog
Crop Bistro cleveland.com
Joy Machines Bike Shop New, expanding businesses to crop up in Ohio City with help from Charter One grant program | cleveland.com
Fit Personal Training Studio New, expanding businesses to crop up in Ohio City with help from Charter One grant program | cleveland.com
Orale Kitchen Oh Boy! | Bites | Cleveland Scene
Room Service (clothing) Retail tenants join Market District momentum in Cleveland's Ohio City neighborhood | cleveland.com
Bonbon Pastry and Café bonbon pastry and cafe to open in market district
Ohio City Room Chez Francois leads Zagat pack: Restaurant Row | cleveland.com

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by andrew61

See, this is what has always bugged me about Cleveland. Did you know that Ohio City gentrification/revitalization has been going on since the 1970s? Yes, really, for that long. Yet, to an outsider who comes from a city where neighborhoods have truly transformed, sometimes almost overnight, it appears that the neighborhood is merely in the "early stages" of renewal.

Cleveland is like the friend you love dearly, yet at the same time you want to smack them upside the head for making the same mistakes over and over, and never learning from them. You want to give that friend a good shaking and ask them, "When the heck are you going to get your life together?"

I've heard about Cleveland's much-vaunted "comeback" since the early 1980s, yet it's always perpetually stuck in its "early stages" and appears to peter out time and time again. It's like you can see that Cleveland has great potential, and some good things going on, but you wait around and wait around for it to "reclaim its former vitality", but for some reason it never quite gets there... until one day you realize you're not getting any younger, so you choose to jump ship and leave town for a city that already has all that full-fledged urban vitality and goodness you waited so long and hard to experience. That's why I moved to Chicago in 1995.

Maybe this time it really is different. But I'm skeptical.

I know you're not anti-Cleveland, but I would be completely shocked to hear of any Chicago neighborhood that is seeing more investment than University Circle right now.

[Mr216]

Cleveland would be better served by trying to suck up Euclid and East Cleveland maybe the desolate part of Cleveland Heights it would benefit everyone instead of talking about this "Black Flight" if someone moved to Euclid it still would be Cleveland so we wouldn't have to worry about population loss and loss of tax money which can deteriorate a city. It's amazing to look at this role reverse from 1990-2000 every ethnic group's population increased in Cleveland except for white (which is why the population still dropped) so to quickly get those pop. levels back and to stop in county fighting over residents they need to combine and work together it only can do some good. Even East Cleveland's Mayor is on board with the idea