U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-23-2011, 05:28 AM
 
674 posts, read 1,004,823 times
Reputation: 480

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by averysgore View Post
Commuter rail is generally less frequent than the subway and has a higher fare, which would deter the poor from riding it "just for the hell of it." Though I think having a regular rapid line through western Lakewood makes sense.
A rapid line through Lakewood, and increasing frequency of trains would be fantastic. I'd be car free in Cleveland for sure if I didn't have to wait 20 minutes for each train. That is the only downside, other than that - the layout of the public transit system is pretty efficient.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-23-2011, 11:34 AM
 
4,822 posts, read 4,504,693 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by averysgore View Post
That sounds like bull. Many US cities (and all of Europe) have extensive rail networks, most of which service lots of poor neighborhoods. Can you name a single city that has suffered this problem?

Commuter rail is generally less frequent than the subway and has a higher fare, which would deter the poor from riding it "just for the hell of it." Though I think having a regular rapid line through western Lakewood makes sense.
I think you missed the point which is not rail transit service in poor areas; in places like Cleveland, poor neighborhoods have ready access to rail transit. The issue is the wealthy suburbs being connected to these rail lines, especially to the local malls. These suburbs do not want the inner-city residients (aka blacks and poor whites, hispanics etc) having easy access into the area.
Cleveland and Baltimore are two cities I know of that have experienced oppostion from wealthy suburbs for local tranist rail extensions.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 11:41 AM
 
674 posts, read 1,004,823 times
Reputation: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
I think you missed the point which is not rail transit service in poor areas; in places like Cleveland, poor neighborhoods have ready access to rail transit. The issue is the wealthy suburbs being connected to these rail lines, especially to the local malls. These suburbs do not want the inner-city residients (aka blacks and poor whites, hispanics etc) having easy access into the area.
Cleveland and Baltimore are two cities I know of that have experienced oppostion from wealthy suburbs for local tranist rail extensions.
Because roads and public transit other than light rail (which would only improve efficiency) don't already lead into these bubbles of prosperous, white existence. There is no significant correlation, if one at all, with crime in wealthy areas and public transit.

Like I said, it's not as if these areas aren't already connected in the first place.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Summit, NJ
1,781 posts, read 1,803,758 times
Reputation: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
I think you missed the point which is not rail transit service in poor areas; in places like Cleveland, poor neighborhoods have ready access to rail transit. The issue is the wealthy suburbs being connected to these rail lines, especially to the local malls. These suburbs do not want the inner-city residients (aka blacks and poor whites, hispanics etc) having easy access into the area.
Cleveland and Baltimore are two cities I know of that have experienced oppostion from wealthy suburbs for local tranist rail extensions.
I should have clarified: "Many US cities (and all of Europe) have extensive rail networks, most of which service lots of poor neighborhoods and lots of wealthy suburbs." And everything in between. Again, if you know of any such cities that had a surge in suburban crime due to the rail system, I'm all ears.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 01:24 PM
 
4,822 posts, read 4,504,693 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhAcid View Post
Because roads and public transit other than light rail (which would only improve efficiency) don't already lead into these bubbles of prosperous, white existence. There is no significant correlation, if one at all, with crime in wealthy areas and public transit.

Like I said, it's not as if these areas aren't already connected in the first place.
Never said it was fact-based in terms of real crime taking place; more of a fear of inner-city residents coming into the suburbs stealing etc. The fear is the riff-raff from the inner cities will commit crimes.

There is a fear and unwelcome attitude in the suburbs of inner-city residents, especially blacks going out to the wealthy malls and train is a perfect method for them to have easy in and out access. Anyone having a Cleveland address is suspect in some suburban areas.

Last edited by Kamms; 12-23-2011 at 01:34 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 01:27 PM
 
4,822 posts, read 4,504,693 times
Reputation: 2162
On a visit to Cleveland last year, I watched local news story where three African-Americans were in an expensive fur coat store (Westlake) with video of a woman from this group stuffing a fur down her pants; the video is hilarious. This is what the suburbs fear will become more common with excellent rail connections into Cleveland.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Northfield, MN
766 posts, read 2,031,096 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Never said it was fact-based in terms of real crime taking place; more of a fear of inner-city residents coming into the suburbs stealing etc. The fear is the riff-raff from the inner cities will commit crimes.

There is a fear and unwelcome attitude in the suburbs of inner-city residents, especially blacks going out to the wealthy malls and train is a perfect method for them to have easy in and out access. Anyone having a Cleveland address is suspect in some suburban areas.
Never heard of anything like that happening in Shaker, one of the wealthiest suburbs in Cleveland, which has 2 rapid routes.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 06:32 PM
 
4,822 posts, read 4,504,693 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18 View Post
Never heard of anything like that happening in Shaker, one of the wealthiest suburbs in Cleveland, which has 2 rapid routes.
The Shaker lines are a bad example. Those lines were constructed prior to Cleveland ''going bad''. The west suburbs do not want Cleveland's Red Line. Given the history of race relations in the U.S. and Cleveland in particular, why is this such a hard concept to understand? Why haven't the rapid lines been extended west or south (or even east) as originally planned when RTA was created in 1975?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2011, 07:06 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,004,823 times
Reputation: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
The Shaker lines are a bad example. Those lines were constructed prior to Cleveland ''going bad''. The west suburbs do not want Cleveland's Red Line. Given the history of race relations in the U.S. and Cleveland in particular, why is this such a hard concept to understand? Why haven't the rapid lines been extended west or south (or even east) as originally planned when RTA was created in 1975?
How is the exact scenario you're talking about a bad example? If anything it's proof that "riff-raff" doesn't spill into an area and wreak havoc simply because public transit serves the area. The time period has nothing to do with the fact that currently; the area is connected to Cleveland by rail.

And the reason for the extensions west and south not happening are obvious; lack of funding. Lakewood is connected with two red line stations; and does not suffer terrible Cleveland crime. The fact that the stations do not directly serve downtown Lakewood is irrelevant as far as this topic is concerned.

Chicago's "L" does not directly serve large portions of major neighborhoods; specifically Lake View and Lincoln Park, but the areas that are connected are not crime infested; nor are Chicago's suburbs despite a connection to the "scary" south side of the city. Anything further west of Lakewood is car oriented and Lakewood would also serve the major shopping needs of those suburbs. It would be pointless to extend the rapid at very high cost to an area that doesn't need the connection to Cleveland when other areas could be improved upon instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
On a visit to Cleveland last year, I watched local news story where three African-Americans were in an expensive fur coat store (Westlake) with video of a woman from this group stuffing a fur down her pants; the video is hilarious. This is what the suburbs fear will become more common with excellent rail connections into Cleveland.
You mean racism? If that's the case I'd rather the suburbs remain suburbs and bubbles of false reality. Three black people shoplifting must mean the rest of their black clan would also do the same if they could only use public transit to further their shoplifting agenda.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2011, 09:20 PM
 
4,822 posts, read 4,504,693 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhAcid View Post
How is the exact scenario you're talking about a bad example? If anything it's proof that "riff-raff" doesn't spill into an area and wreak havoc simply because public transit serves the area. The time period has nothing to do with the fact that currently; the area is connected to Cleveland by rail.

And the reason for the extensions west and south not happening are obvious; lack of funding. Lakewood is connected with two red line stations; and does not suffer terrible Cleveland crime. The fact that the stations do not directly serve downtown Lakewood is irrelevant as far as this topic is concerned.

Chicago's "L" does not directly serve large portions of major neighborhoods; specifically Lake View and Lincoln Park, but the areas that are connected are not crime infested; nor are Chicago's suburbs despite a connection to the "scary" south side of the city. Anything further west of Lakewood is car oriented and Lakewood would also serve the major shopping needs of those suburbs. It would be pointless to extend the rapid at very high cost to an area that doesn't need the connection to Cleveland when other areas could be improved upon instead.




You mean racism? If that's the case I'd rather the suburbs remain suburbs and bubbles of false reality. Three black people shoplifting must mean the rest of their black clan would also do the same if they could only use public transit to further their shoplifting agenda.
Umm, the opposition stemmed mainly from connections to Great Northern Mall and the one in Strongsville. The Red Line isn't connected to anything; it's a reused rail line and was not designed to be convenient. However, the main retail connection it does have is Tower City and look what happened there. Blacks show up in large numbers and whites leave in large numbers; high-end stores close and Payless Shoes and t-shirt shops come in. Hopefully, Gilbert will clean it all out and run the whole complex the way it needs to be done. By the way, there are no stations are located in Lakewood.

How many times do I have to say that this is not what I believe but what the suburban opposition is based on. Next time the topic comes up in a public forum if RTA talks about rail extensions, you will be the go to man when the opposition comes up. The suburbs are what they are, especially on the west side. They don't want blacks out there just like they weren't welcomed on the west side of city; but this has changed as Cleveland empties out.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:36 PM.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top