Cleveland becoming Chicagoish? (Green, Englewood, Rockford: foreclosed, loans, townhomes)

[west336]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Having said that in my last post: I will say that Cleveland ethnic heritage in many ways mirrors Chicagos, except that Clevelands ethnic heritage might be a bit more "east-coast" like in that Cleveland has a higher proportion (for a metro its size) of Italian Americans.

Its been said many times, that Clevelands Little Italy is bigger and more authentic than Chicagos Little Italy. Cleveland has the greatest number of Slovenians, Croatians, and Hungarians outside their respecitve countries. With sizeable Polish, Czech, and Ukrainians. As well as Irish.

Cleveland is the really the only city in the midwest outside Chicago to have a concentrated urban neighborhood of Asians in Asiantown, as well as the second largest Puerto Rican community in the midwest outside Chicago.

Although Chicago has obviously a much larger of foreign born, and a higher percetange to, Clevelands ethnic diversity is pretty significant.

While Detroit more than Cleveland grew to a massive size that was closer to that of Chicago up through the late 60s, and today is IMO, the only midwest metro area to have that seemingly endless suburbia similar to Chicago, Cleveland has done quite well keeping its core neighborhoods more vibrant, considering the city is less than half its peak population.

Another thing that gives Cleveland a bit of an east coast feel, is that its eastern suburbs very clearly show the influence of the early days of when it was part of the Connecticut western reserve. IE: Chagrin Falls.

Chicago does also have some suburbs that have that historic heritage along the regions major rivers (Fox and Lower Des Plaines) as well as along some of the train lines. (especially in Chicagos western suburbs).

I'd like to throw in St. Paul, MN into the mix in this criteria as well. I'm not sure if you either didn't consider it or under-estimated its relatively moderate Asian population.....or if you have a different criteria altogether. However, there is no "Asia town", or "Little Saigon" or equivalent....not officially.

Not trying to nitpick, rather, add to your data.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Chicago's revitalization/redevelopment is concentrated in its core. Chicago's convention and tourist business is the key to its revitalization. I always find it interesting that Chicago is ''booming'' and ''revitalized'' when its population loss was 200,000 from 2000-2010. Chicago's making money off visitor business but its population is declining. Cleveland could replicate Chicago's model in this respect by developing its core to attract tourists and convention business while losing its population. Hopefully, Cleveland can stabilize and even increase its population by 2020.

Re Chicago's population loss: 150,000 out of that 200,000 came from the African-American community. And that ten-year period pretty neatly dovetails with the demolition of some 50,000 public housing units. I'm not saying dogmatically that it was the cause of the population loss, but I definitely see some correlation and some circumstantial evidence there.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Re Chicago's population loss: 150,000 out of that 200,000 came from the African-American community. And that ten-year period pretty neatly dovetails with the demolition of some 50,000 public housing units. I'm not saying dogmatically that it was the cause of the population loss, but I definitely see some correlation and some circumstantial evidence there.

I realize there is a celebration in Chicago that 150,000 African-American have left the city; however, 200,000 is a loss no matter how hard the Chicago ''wind'' tries to put a spin on it. Not every African-American that left Chicago from 2000-2010 was a projects-thug. Atlanta is the new mecca of professional African-Americans; maybe they're tired of Chicago's racism? Chicago is experiencing the reverse of the Great Migration.

Further, given that 50,000 public housing units were demolished, how were the population numbers so skewed prior to the 2010 census results? I mean, if 50,000 units with x number of people were relocated, the population figures should not have been such a shock. Many of the public housing residents were placed throughout the city in Section 8 housing.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Re Chicago's population loss: 150,000 out of that 200,000 came from the African-American community. And that ten-year period pretty neatly dovetails with the demolition of some 50,000 public housing units. I'm not saying dogmatically that it was the cause of the population loss, but I definitely see some correlation and some circumstantial evidence there.

I know this is the Cleveland forum, but a quick look at Chicago zip codes (60655-Mt Greenwood; 60638-Garfield Ridge; 60631 &56-Jefferson Park) shows declines in all. Garfield Ridge a -10.13% decline with Mt. Greenwood -6.68%; that latter two -5.13% & -3.53%. Garfield Ridge & Mt. Greenwood, both white, blue-collar bastions for the most part, saw a surprising drop (especially Garfield Ridge). BTW, for those that do not know, Garfield Ridge is where Midway Airport is located.

[west336]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I realize there is a celebration in Chicago that 150,000 African-American have left the city; however, 200,000 is a loss no matter how hard the Chicago ''wind'' tries to put a spin on it. Not every African-American that left Chicago from 2000-2010 was a projects-thug. Atlanta is the new mecca of professional African-Americans; maybe they're tired of Chicago's racism? Chicago is experiencing the reverse of the Great Migration.

Further, given that 50,000 public housing units were demolished, how were the population numbers so skewed prior to the 2010 census results? I mean, if 50,000 units with x number of people were relocated, the population figures should not have been such a shock. Many of the public housing residents were placed throughout the city in Section 8 housing.

NO!!! Many have fled the city/state altogether, ending up in places like Rockford, IL or Des Moines, IA.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by west336

NO!!! Many have fled the city/state altogether, ending up in places like Rockford, IL or Des Moines, IA.

YES! Many were spread throughout the city and many, NOT ALL, did flee to Rockford, Des Moines, Atlanta etc. So I don't know why you have a big NO!

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Re Chicago's population loss: 150,000 out of that 200,000 came from the African-American community. And that ten-year period pretty neatly dovetails with the demolition of some 50,000 public housing units. I'm not saying dogmatically that it was the cause of the population loss, but I definitely see some correlation and some circumstantial evidence there.

The Chicago Housing Authority is on track to create 25,000 new or rehabilitated public housing units. I know Chicagoans like to overlook, deny and spin anything negative about the city, but the problem with the black exodus out of Chicago is that it is heavily middle and working class residents. Of course some are from the old projects but the vast majority are fleeing the south side for the south suburbs and the southern U.S. What was called ''white flight'' (working and middle class) in the 1960s and 1970s has become ''black flight'' (working and middle class) of the 2000s and 2010s. The exception with Chicago's ''black flight'' is that it's taking the young, educated, professional crowd with it.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Skeletor P-Funk

You're kidding, right? There are all sorts of previously black neighborhoods that are gentrifying.

Fact of the matter is, we're seeing a reverse migration moreso over weather than economy. The southern economies are terrible, unemployment is almost as bad as the pay. At least if you get a job in Illinois you can pay rent with it.

You're kidding, right? What black neighborhoods are gentrifying (please don't use the cliche Bronzeville)? When did the reverse migration start given the 2010 census and the 9.7% Chicago metro unemployment.

One area Cleveland is becoming Chicagoish is in the loss of its black population.

[west336]

Originally Posted by Kamms

YES! Many were spread throughout the city and many, NOT ALL, did flee to Rockford, Des Moines, Atlanta etc. So I don't know why you have a big NO!

Because, from what I've heard and seen, MOST of the people living in those projects could not be afforded housing in the city, and fled elsewhere to the suburbs, out-state and beyond. Very few, if any, residents stayed in the city of Chicago.....and that was precisely the underlying point.

[west336]

Originally Posted by Skeletor P-Funk

You're kidding, right? There are all sorts of previously black neighborhoods that are gentrifying.

Fact of the matter is, we're seeing a reverse migration moreso over weather than economy. The southern economies are terrible, unemployment is almost as bad as the pay. At least if you get a job in Illinois you can pay rent with it.

I totally agree with this! At least it seems this way, and many many a transplant has gone so far as to say they moved for weather or cost of living, over jobs.