Cleveland becoming Chicagoish? (Cleveland Heights, Green, Chagrin Falls: best suburbs, crime, houses)

[ZnGuy]

Originally Posted by west336

I totally agree with this! At least it seems this way, and many many a transplant has gone so far as to say they moved for weather or cost of living, over jobs.

I have to admit that many transplants moved to the sunbelt for weather and cost of living. I know prior to the recession many northerners moved (70,000 per yr) to Charlotte for those reasons and many of the transplants came without job and figured they would find one once they arrived (and many did). Its a different story now as the jobs aren't as easy to come by but the area is still growing by 40-50k per year, I would assume most of these people have job. I know the teaching jobs pay way less than up north (non union) but with the growth and new schools it is easier to find a teaching job than in the northern states. manufacturing likely pays less as most are non union. Charlotte is heavy white collar and most professionals, like myself, have strong incomes that compare favorable with other regions of country, and we benefit with a cheaper cost of living than the Northeast ( which is we're most of the transplants come from).

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by west336

NO!!! Many have fled the city/state altogether, ending up in places like Rockford, IL or Des Moines, IA.

Thats way exaggerated.

Depends on how you define "many have fled." Its HIGHLY exaggerated.

A lot of the population loss, has also been due to the housing bubble and subsequent crash.

Lower middle class African Americans who have a suburban dream of good schools and better neighborhoods who were approved for loans to achieve that dream to get out of a city that doesn't work for them and to provide for their kids a better life. And then afterwards, they would take advantage of dirt cheap foreclosed properties in the suburbs.

Displacement of project residents in NO WAY can account for all or even most of the loss.

Chicago still mostly attractes singles, young couples, and empty nesters . . . or the super rich who can send their kids to private schools, ethnic Catholics who have connections to send their kids to parochial schools, or the lucky that can get into a magnet school.

Fact is that the Daley administration (like his father) went to work to turn downtown Chicago and the lakefront, while neglected the basic needs of middle class residents of the rest of the city who want only safe streets and good schools. Which he (and his father in the 60s and 70s) did not really provde for.
The rea

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Kamms

You're kidding, right? What black neighborhoods are gentrifying (please don't use the cliche Bronzeville)? When did the reverse migration start given the 2010 census and the 9.7% Chicago metro unemployment.

One area Cleveland is becoming Chicagoish is in the loss of its black population.

Yeah, the "gentrification" of Bronzeville is like two or three blocks then a war zone. Although I do have to admit, that some great historic mansions are located there! But seriously, Bronzeville doesn't look all that different from Detroits Brush Park (an area with falling apart historic mansions, huge vacant lots, some recently built nice townhomes, and some old projects buildings) between Midtown and Downtown).

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I realize there is a celebration in Chicago that 150,000 African-American have left the city; however, 200,000 is a loss no matter how hard the Chicago ''wind'' tries to put a spin on it. Not every African-American that left Chicago from 2000-2010 was a projects-thug. Atlanta is the new mecca of professional African-Americans; maybe they're tired of Chicago's racism? Chicago is experiencing the reverse of the Great Migration.

Further, given that 50,000 public housing units were demolished, how were the population numbers so skewed prior to the 2010 census results? I mean, if 50,000 units with x number of people were relocated, the population figures should not have been such a shock. Many of the public housing residents were placed throughout the city in Section 8 housing.

Exactly, I don't know why so many are in denial of this.

This is the ONE THING I can't stand about Chicago. Is the complete denial, and twisting of reality.

Most other cities, even the most proud boosters are honest about their cities problems.

Why can't Chicagoans just admit that the city hasn't worked well for African Americans? Proud Clevelanders and Detroiters are honest about the segregation and poverty that plagues their inner city, AA neighborhoods.

Atlanta is home to many African American celebrities, and is the new center for African American pop music (hip hop and R&B) for the last ten years.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by west336

Because, from what I've heard and seen, MOST of the people living in those projects could not be afforded housing in the city, and fled elsewhere to the suburbs, out-state and beyond. Very few, if any, residents stayed in the city of Chicago.....and that was precisely the underlying point.

How is this possible?? Do you know how much apartments go for in Englewood, etc.???

Of course, they don't really want to live there, they want better so they leave. Its the ones that HAVE no skills or education that simply move to Englewood or wherever.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Skeletor P-Funk

You're kidding, right? There are all sorts of previously black neighborhoods that are gentrifying.

Fact of the matter is, we're seeing a reverse migration moreso over weather than economy. The southern economies are terrible, unemployment is almost as bad as the pay. At least if you get a job in Illinois you can pay rent with it.

???

No. The small cities . . . sure.

Do you know about the corporate headquarters that have left for Atlanta and Charlotte (Smuffitt Stone and banks to Charlotte).

But the big southern cities, IE Texas are doing better than most of the country. D.C. area is kicking but (and therefore Virginia - as most of the population is part of the D.C. area).

Atlanta is struggling a little more, but that mostly because of the housing market, its a huge center for all sorts of huge companies, etc.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Thats way exaggerated.

Depends on how you define "many have fled." Its HIGHLY exaggerated.

A lot of the population loss, has also been due to the housing bubble and subsequent crash.

Lower middle class African Americans who have a suburban dream of good schools and better neighborhoods who were approved for loans to achieve that dream to get out of a city that doesn't work for them and to provide for their kids a better life. And then afterwards, they would take advantage of dirt cheap foreclosed properties in the suburbs.

Displacement of project residents in NO WAY can account for all or even most of the loss.

Chicago still mostly attractes singles, young couples, and empty nesters . . . or the super rich who can send their kids to private schools, ethnic Catholics who have connections to send their kids to parochial schools, or the lucky that can get into a magnet school.

Fact is that the Daley administration (like his father) went to work to turn downtown Chicago and the lakefront, while neglected the basic needs of middle class residents of the rest of the city who want only safe streets and good schools. Which he (and his father in the 60s and 70s) did not really provde for.
The rea

Don't forget the public transportation system; CTA is crumbling, let alone upgraded and expanding the rail system.

[13th Alphabet]

Saying Cleveland is becoming "Chicagoish" isn't necessarily a good thing, especially with all the problems that Chicago is facing, just like many other midwestern cities. With the current state of all cities considered, Minneapolis and Pittsburgh are two cities that Cleveland could model their restoration efforts after.

Cleveland seems to be making great strides in improving the city, but it seems to lag Pittsburgh by about 10 years. Hopefully though, will all the projects going on in Cleveland, it can help stabilize the population and even draw people back to the city (something Pittsburgh is still trying to accomplish).

[west336]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Thats way exaggerated.

Depends on how you define "many have fled." Its HIGHLY exaggerated.

A lot of the population loss, has also been due to the housing bubble and subsequent crash.

Lower middle class African Americans who have a suburban dream of good schools and better neighborhoods who were approved for loans to achieve that dream to get out of a city that doesn't work for them and to provide for their kids a better life. And then afterwards, they would take advantage of dirt cheap foreclosed properties in the suburbs.

Displacement of project residents in NO WAY can account for all or even most of the loss.

Chicago still mostly attractes singles, young couples, and empty nesters . . . or the super rich who can send their kids to private schools, ethnic Catholics who have connections to send their kids to parochial schools, or the lucky that can get into a magnet school.

Fact is that the Daley administration (like his father) went to work to turn downtown Chicago and the lakefront, while neglected the basic needs of middle class residents of the rest of the city who want only safe streets and good schools. Which he (and his father in the 60s and 70s) did not really provde for.
The rea

I'm sorry, I'm talking only about those that lived in Public Housing projects. I did a lot of community work in the Chicago Housing Projects and, at least when I was at Cabrini Green, I was told the residents had nowhere to live in the city right before the buildings were about to be torn down. My cousin had a friend from Cabrini and he's in Rockford, IL now. I've heard a lot more accounts of this same type of thing, and countless articles about how those in the projects have had to flee the city to find housing.

[west336]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

How is this possible?? Do you know how much apartments go for in Englewood, etc.???

Of course, they don't really want to live there, they want better so they leave. Its the ones that HAVE no skills or education that simply move to Englewood or wherever.

Well I would imagine they would go wherever HUD or public assistance would let them go, where they fall under HUD criteria for housing. I have no clue how that works.