Cleveland becoming Chicagoish? (Cincinnati, Lakewood, Euclid: crime rate, college, professionals)

[streetcreed]

It could become a miniChicago. There is all of the right history, some of the architecture, geography, etc. There are restrictions that prevent Cleveland from becoming the same scope of Chicago (size of downtown, infrastructure, metro that already developed around the city) Yes, if Cleveland continues growth, continues improving transit, importantly sees office/retail growth downtown, and sees urban neighborhoods with lakefront property renovate and gentrify in droves it could be more like Chicago.

I think the barrier here is that Ohio has been, as we all know, has been favoring policies that encourage and assist America's trend for suburba/exurban growth. The majority of private sector job growth in this state is coming from suburban like office parks and some in downtonw. There is job growth in downtowns, but not on the level to create a chicago. If Cleveland was to become more Chicago it would have to see a growth surge and somehow avoid the incentives working against central city, white collar, and private sector office growth.

[TheProf]

In a twist on the idea, yesterday a radio talk host noted that Chicago is ..., "New York with Cleveland people."

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Another issue Cleveland needs to resolve is its city population decline; this is an issue Chicago does not have and edge on either as its population is in decline as well (this despite Chicago's much touted ''boom'').

Absolutely. Chicago has eight times the population and three times the land that Cleveland has; as big of a city as Cleveland is I cannot see it in the same league as Chicago within our lifetimes. I would be happy if Cleveland could get back to where it was, or at least a city of one million.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by streetcreed

It could become a miniChicago. There is all of the right history, some of the architecture, geography, etc. There are restrictions that prevent Cleveland from becoming the same scope of Chicago (size of downtown, infrastructure, metro that already developed around the city) Yes, if Cleveland continues growth, continues improving transit, importantly sees office/retail growth downtown, and sees urban neighborhoods with lakefront property renovate and gentrify in droves it could be more like Chicago.

I think the barrier here is that Ohio has been, as we all know, has been favoring policies that encourage and assist America's trend for suburba/exurban growth. The majority of private sector job growth in this state is coming from suburban like office parks and some in downtonw. There is job growth in downtowns, but not on the level to create a chicago. If Cleveland was to become more Chicago it would have to see a growth surge and somehow avoid the incentives working against central city, white collar, and private sector office growth.

Absolutely. Cleveland would do better to go up against a city like DC that is a lot closer in size.

[goofy328]

Chicago is still losing population. They had 4% growth in the nineties but lost that growth in the last decade. If anything, Chicago will lose another place and end up behind Houston to become the fourth largest, with Houston moving into that third largest slot.

One of the problems Chicago has with maintaining its status, is that LA has never seen a population decline, ever, in the city core. LA growth will slow to a crawl, because of overpopulation, and a struggle to increase density and build high-rises over the next few decades, but so far it seems poised to maintain that growth. Metro LA might be a different issue though.

Even NYC saw a decline during the later part of the 20th century.

On the other hand, I think the future for the Midwest will continue to be Indianapolis and Columbus. Too many other cities are busy getting back to their former glory, of the 50s. Bad part about this, is that these are mainly suburban cities that lack the vibrant core of what most have grown to love about the Midwest.

[TheProf]

Obviously, the Cleveland-to-Chicago comparison is something that more than just a few City-Data folks dreamed up... Even today, in this morning's Plain Dealer, a popular restraunter Jonothan Sawyer, in a piece regarding the West Side Market's Centennial, stated:

"We want to let the people around the country realize what a culinary travel destination Cleveland has become," said Sawyer. "We have out-of-town customers who call Cleveland 'The Affordable Chicago.'

West Side Market kicks off 100th birthday celebrations | cleveland.com

[Euclidbuck]

I dont think, other than being against a lake and similar weather, that the two have too much in common...Sure they are alot of similarities, but the East Side of Cleveland, and eastern Cuyahoga county and the Cuyahoga Valley are totally unique.

I'd say you could make the case that the West Side has alot more similarities to Chicago.

[TheProf]

Euclidbuck,

I think people mean the culture of the people and the culture and energy/liveliness of the town compare as much or more than architecture. Yes, physically, the West Side is probably more similar (ie: Ohio City, Detroit-Shoreway, Edgewater/Lakewood Gold Coast are physically similar to Chicago's North Side Gold Coast and NW Side's Bucktown, for example... (I do think, on the East Side, University Circle and Chicago's Hyde Park are VERY similar...

I think the fact that we're both Midwest Cities also is a factor: Midwestern cities are supposted to be cookie-cutter boring (not true, but...) and Cleveland and Chicago are not. Plus, I think the fact that we are more public transit oriented -- not on Chicago's level, of course, be way more so than the average Midwest city, makes us more similar -- ... also, I mean, where's the rail transit in such cities as Milwaukee, Indy, Columbus, Cincy or KC. St. Louis has a 20 year-old system and Minneapolis just built it's 1st line ... Cleveland's Rapid is closer in age to the Chicago el... Related: our downtown living is more like Chicago than other Midwest cities; and there's a race to build, convert old office buildings into residences... Since even the 1st of this year, 3 separate downtown buildings have announced they are converting to high-end apts. A brand new residence (Flats East Bank) is going up as we speak, and...

[Euclidbuck]

There are similarities, but Chicago strikes me as very Irish/Polish orientated as far as its European culture while Cleveland is more split amongst its sides.

...the Westside has alot more Poles and Irish, much like Chicago..

..While the eastside has a more Jewish, Italian vibe, more like NYC and the east

Its what makes Cleveland unique and nothing like Chicago.

We have that Midwest/East Coast combo that is divided at the Cuyahoga river.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Euclidbuck,

I think people mean the culture of the people and the culture and energy/liveliness of the town compare as much or more than architecture. Yes, physically, the West Side is probably more similar (ie: Ohio City, Detroit-Shoreway, Edgewater/Lakewood Gold Coast are physically similar to Chicago's North Side Gold Coast and NW Side's Bucktown, for example... (I do think, on the East Side, University Circle and Chicago's Hyde Park are VERY similar...

I think the fact that we're both Midwest Cities also is a factor: Midwestern cities are supposted to be cookie-cutter boring (not true, but...) and Cleveland and Chicago are not. Plus, I think the fact that we are more public transit oriented -- not on Chicago's level, of course, be way more so than the average Midwest city, makes us more similar -- ... also, I mean, where's the rail transit in such cities as Milwaukee, Indy, Columbus, Cincy or KC. St. Louis has a 20 year-old system and Minneapolis just built it's 1st line ... Cleveland's Rapid is closer in age to the Chicago el... Related: our downtown living is more like Chicago than other Midwest cities; and there's a race to build, convert old office buildings into residences... Since even the 1st of this year, 3 separate downtown buildings have announced they are converting to high-end apts. A brand new residence (Flats East Bank) is going up as we speak, and...

Cincinnati's building the streetcar.