Would Cleveland/Northeast Ohio Be Better Off if it Were Its Own State? (closing, cities)

[OhAcid]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

It's an expansion. I wish you would look at the plans. Besides, phase 1 (the one with a shovel in the ground) of your slated projects will be completed as planned.

The Innerbelt Bridge over I-90 has structural integrity issues. It's not dangerous because people drive like idiots on it. It's dangerous because it is becoming structurally unsound. If Columbus had a bridge running over a large river value that was in danger of failure, I would agree. But, that isn't remotely the case.

That's the scary thing. It's not just a matter of some road being in "poor condition" - it's a massive bridge carrying two major highways. It terrifies me just thinking about it.

[chet_kinkaid]

if northeast ohio were to break off from the rest of ohio..it would be a region where the majority of entitlements are spent in ohio..youngstown is almost half below the poverty level..and would lose the tax contributions of rich areas like cincinnati and columbus..a region losing population and dragging down the state..the rest of ohio would probably gain a congressional seat next census

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

It's an expansion. I wish you would look at the plans. Besides, phase 1 (the one with a shovel in the ground) of your slated projects will be completed as planned.

The Innerbelt Bridge over I-90 has structural integrity issues. It's not dangerous because people drive like idiots on it. It's dangerous because it is becoming structurally unsound. If Columbus had a bridge running over a large river value that was in danger of failure, I would agree. But, that isn't remotely the case.

Ah, so your dangerous roads are more important. People dying in Columbus because of far outdated traffic designs is cool because in Cleveland, there's a bridge that's old. Your problems are more important. Everything that happens in Cleveland is just so incredibly important that the rest of podunk Ohio should be sending money out of their own pockets just to make you happy. Columbus should send you state government, have OSU relocate... hell, let's have Gordon Gee blow Cleveland's mayor as a sign of submission. Columbus deserves no jobs, no infrastructure, no parks, no police, fire, education... you know, because Cleveland can't seem to get its sh*t together and become successful again. Good plan and great thread, guys. Reason continues to be a lost cause up on the Lake.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

My argument is nothing of the sort. My argument is that Columbus derives a HUGE amount of benefit from tax dollars. My statement is that people from Columbus ought to recognize their unique position among the 3Cs before opening their immense pie holes. Over 55,000 direct positions of employment are derived from public dollars that come largely from somewhere else. State/Federal funds account for the Columbus area's top 3 employers.

Columbus Top 3:
1.) The State of Ohio - 26,037
2.) OSU - 17,361
3.) US Government - 13,300

Cleveland Top 10:
1. Cleveland Clinic Foundation - 27,755
2. University Hospitals Health Systems Inc. - 16,611
3. Progressive Corp. - 9,017
4. KeyCorp - 6,397
5. PNC/National City Corp. - 6,051
6. Case Western Reserve University - 5,075
7. Ford Motor Co. - 4,910
8. Sherwin-Williams - 3,176
9. Continental Airlines - 2,892
10. Giant Eagle - 2,857

Note: They're ALL private companies and institutions.

If you can't see the discrepancy/disparity just from these figures alone, my advice would be to be really careful about who you are calling "dense." It will save you a bit of embarrassment in the future.

Oh, I can see something alright, but it's not your point.

Let me ask you this: How do you know that Columbus' metro population paying taxes doesn't pretty much pay for every single one of those public positions? Why is the assumption made here that it's all being paid for on the backs of you poor, powerless Clevelanders?

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

That's all fine and good, but it seems that we never have problems finding trillions of dollars to fight wars. The "system-wide failure" has more to do with our country's out of whack priorities than it does with the unavailability of funding. The cash is there, it's just that we're more interested in blowing crap up elsewhere than we are in building/re-building things at home.

Did Cleveland also single-handedly pay for Iraq and Afghanistan also?

[OhAcid]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Ah, so your dangerous roads are more important. People dying in Columbus because of far outdated traffic designs is cool because in Cleveland, there's a bridge that's old. Your problems are more important. Everything that happens in Cleveland is just so incredibly important that the rest of podunk Ohio should be sending money out of their own pockets just to make you happy. Columbus should send you state government, have OSU relocate... hell, let's have Gordon Gee blow Cleveland's mayor as a sign of submission. Columbus deserves no jobs, no infrastructure, no parks, no police, fire, education... you know, because Cleveland can't seem to get its sh*t together and become successful again. Good plan and great thread, guys. Reason continues to be a lost cause up on the Lake.

You're absolutely ignorant.

I'm not saying this in a disrespectful manner to those who have died, but the few car accidents that happen every year as a result of poor urban planning in Columbus and their failure to correct that problem is both the city and the driver's fault if an incident occurs.

If a bridge carrying I90 and I71 COLLAPSES that is not the fault of the driver. That is the state of Ohio's fault. It's also a much more serious, pressing matter than a stretch of ground level highway.

By the way, weren't you just telling me in another thread how great Columbus and it's highway system is and what a pleasure it is to drive there?

You should stop defending Columbus like it's some capital of the world and look at the big picture; which is that it's a very mediocre, "nice" city not unlike any other Anytown, USA anywhere. The only "character" radiating from Columbus is "We're the capital" and "OSU, OSU" - both of which could be said about Madison, Wisconsin as well. If you take those away you have a random city in the middle of Ohio with a lot of highways. Nothing else at all. That's the truth. At least Madison has an isthmus.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Ah, so your dangerous roads are more important. People dying in Columbus because of far outdated traffic designs is cool because in Cleveland, there's a bridge that's old. Your problems are more important. Everything that happens in Cleveland is just so incredibly important that the rest of podunk Ohio should be sending money out of their own pockets just to make you happy. Columbus should send you state government, have OSU relocate... hell, let's have Gordon Gee blow Cleveland's mayor as a sign of submission. Columbus deserves no jobs, no infrastructure, no parks, no police, fire, education... you know, because Cleveland can't seem to get its sh*t together and become successful again. Good plan and great thread, guys. Reason continues to be a lost cause up on the Lake.

Will you please slow down and abandon the persecution complex? It's really furthering your argument at all. Quite the contrary, actually.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by OhAcid

You're absolutely ignorant.

I'm not saying this in a disrespectful manner to those who have died, but the few car accidents that happen every year as a result of poor urban planning in Columbus and their failure to correct that problem is both the city and the driver's fault if an incident occurs.

If a bridge carrying I90 and I71 COLLAPSES that is not the fault of the driver. That is the state of Ohio's fault. It's also a much more serious, pressing matter than a stretch of ground level highway.

By the way, weren't you just telling me in another thread how great Columbus and it's highway system is and what a pleasure it is to drive there?

You should stop defending Columbus like it's some capital of the world and look at the big picture;

which is that it's a very mediocre, "nice" city not unlike any other Anytown, USA anywhere. The only "character" radiating from Columbus is "We're the capital" and "OSU, OSU" - both of which could be said about Madison, Wisconsin as well. If you take those away you have a random city in the middle of Ohio with a lot of highways. Nothing else at all. That's the truth. At least Madison has an isthmus.

I'm pretty sure that the only people who go apesh*t over the fact that Columbus is the capital are you guys up on the Lake, this thread exemplifying that pretty well. For a city that you find so mediocre, you sure spend a lot of time, like so many others in Cleveland, talking about it and blaming it for all your problems.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Will you please slow down and abandon the persecution complex? It's really furthering your argument at all. Quite the contrary, actually.

Wow, you guys just have zero sense of irony. This whole thread is built upon the idea that NE Ohio gets all its money stolen by other parts of the state, that it has no clout or power, that its people get constantly pushed around and that it would be better off breaking from the rest of the "podunk" state. I was providing what's called sarcasm, but the persecution complex clearly belongs in Cleveland.

[1watertiger]

chet, i disagree with your post above. if N.E.Ohio has almost have the states total population , then im guessing we send cowtown almost half the the states taxes... that would leave the rest of the state to share the other half of the tax pie.. im convinced N.E.Ohio would be better off keeping its own tax dollars for our own use.. note: i agree the entitlements have to go !