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Hello. I am looking to start my life over and I would like to know if Cleveland is where I belong. I will always remember the first time I saw Cleveland. I was on a Greyhound bus to Akron, and we drove into CLE. The moment that I looked out my window and saw the skyline for the first time, I got an overwhelming warm feeling throughout me. It felt "right". It felt like home. So much so actually that I even got a "216" tattoo on the back of my head a year later (see image below). I was only there for an hour or two just to transfer buses, but I knew I'd be back. And I have been back to visit the city once or twice, but never for more than 8 hours or so. Well it's been a good 4 years since I was last there, and since I've never even spent the night, I would like to know a few things about this city I fell in love with many years ago.
First, a little bit about me: I am (more or less) a jack of all trades. I went to college but I didn’t finish. I work in a factory setting right now; and although I LOVE my job, I feel it is time for me to start a new chapter in my life. I will probably be moving without a job, but I will have $10,000+ saved to start my life with. So in other words, I am open to any job opportunities. And I do mean anything (so long as it’s legal and pays my rent). I am a 34 year old (in September) Caucasian Male that is recently divorced and has no kids. And also please note that I have very little debt (no credit cards, loans, ect).
So with that in mind here are my questions:
1) City Living (Part 1) – Does Cleveland feel like a real city. I'm not saying it has to be New York, but it has to have a “hustle & bustle” feel to it. High pedestrian/vehicle traffic, a nightlife, and overall feel of urban living is what I’m after. I don’t need to have all that in my neighborhood directly per se, but I do want to know it is there when I want it (best said, the downtown vibe is what I’m probably referring to here).
2) City Living (Part 2) – I’m the type that I don’t want to be bothered with anyone else’s problems and keep more to myself. I don’t want to live somewhere that is overly friendly, but I don’t need everyone to be a prick either. I have a very straight forward and to the point personality (I would probably best fit in the East Coast mentality) and would like the same in return. Would Cleveland fit the bill?
3) Employment – Is employment easy to come by in Cleveland? I'd like $10+ an hour, but am willing to take Wal-mart (or the like) to start if need be. Also, is there a lot of factory work still available in the Metropolitan Area?
4) Low Cost of Living – I would like to get by on (no more) than $500-$600 a month for rent (after utilities). I have noticed most apartments offer all utilities (minus electric), so I hope to get a studio/1 bedroom (in a decent and safe area) for around $450-$550 (figuring a monthly electric bill of $50 or so).
5) Crime Rate – Is crime a real concern in Cleveland? Do you really have to fear for your safety in the majority of Cleveland Proper? Remember, I will be in Cleveland. I don't do suburbs!!! I need a Cleveland address. Not Lakewood, not Parma, not anything except Cleveland.
6) Grittiness - How urban and gritty is Cleveland proper? Is it on the verge of being like Detroit? I have never really been outside of downtown (besides Steelyard Commons once), so I don't know how much of Cleveland is run down. I have heard stories though as I'm sure you can imagine. :/ BTW - I do find a lot of beauty in Urban Decay, but I don't necessarily want to be overwhelmed with it either.
7) Public Transit vs. Driving – Does Cleveland have a good Public Transit System. I remember waiting on the Waterfront Line once for what seemed like an hour!!! It was a hot summer midday weekend at the time. Is walking/biking and the RTA enough, or is it simply a necessity to have a car?
8) Location/Weather – I noticed Cleveland_Collector's post called "Day 100" (and have been reading it)... Do the majority of you agree with there being a vast majority of sunny/nice days, over cloudy/rainy days? Or is Cleveland really this overly dark, depressing, and rainy place?
9) Beaches - I love going to the beach to watch the girls. I know Cleveland doesn't have a South Beach, but how many beaches are reachable by transit, and how crowded do they get? And can any of you think of any other good spots outside of the beaches to people watch as well?
10) Shopping - What malls are in the Cleveland area? Are they actually busy, or simply just living out there glory days like I've heard Tower City is doing now?
11) Bar Scene - I'm not a huge drinker, but I really enjoy going to the bars on Friday/Saturday Nights to hang out. In Milwaukee there is Water Street, and Old World 3rd (the big bar areas), what areas are in Cleveland? I'm looking for an area with a big college influence and hundreds of people out within a small area.
12) A Good Social/Dating Scene – I will not know anyone there, so I'm hoping that Cleveland is an easy place to make friends, and maybe even find a relationship. Is there a good deal of singles in the area, or is it more of a family oriented city? And also just as important is Cleveland "Transplant Friendly"?
13) Population - It's no secret that Cleveland has been losing more population than any other city in the US (with the exception of Detroit)... Is this something I should be concerned with? I want a flourishing and growing city, not a dying city. With continuing population decline, Cleveland could very well become another Detroit. Once people move out, some cities just seem to stop caring, and everything is left to decay. Detroit once again being the prime example here.
14) Acceptance - California is the one place in the world where no matter how weird or different you are, there will always be someone there to one up you. I'll admit I am a bit weird (compared to the "norm"), and enjoy some things that sometimes take a bit for certain people to accept about me. Since I have no desire to live in California, is Cleveland a really accepting place, or is it more close minded and "bible belted"? I'm looking for a very liberal and open place like San Francisco.
In closing I would like to thank you for all of your responses and hope that all of you enjoy your city as much as I have.
Last edited by RatKing216; 07-08-2012 at 11:26 AM..
1) City Living (Part 1) – Does Cleveland feel like a real city?
- Yes, there is hustle and bustle downtown. It has gotten much more lively and looks like it's going to continue in that direction too. Other core areas also have a good number of people around, like in Ohio City. Not overwhelming like in other cities, but I think it's better. You definitely will feel like you're in a "real" city.
2) Cleveland people tend to be pretty "friendly" than people on the east coast. Not that east coast people are somehow bad. I guess a better way to put it is that Clevelanders are in general a bit warmer. I am not really a huge people-person myself and spend most of my time in the city by myself, and I have no problem with the people here. From my experience, nobody is trying to get in your business and I've never had a problem with people being too intrusive or anything like that.
3) Employment?
- I may not be the totally right person to address this, but I am still having trouble finding a job to fit my skills/academic background. Graduated with a couple BA's and still haven't found a relevant job here. That being said, I haven't been out on the job market for very long, and I do have a job, it's just a pretty unskilled, customer service position. Didn't have much trouble finding those kind of jobs around here. They don't really pay a ton though.
4) The cost of living here is really affordable. I'm not sure what 1 bedrooms go for, but where I live in a good area of an eastern inner ring suburb (University Heights), it's under $300 per month. Granted, the house is shared with 3 other people. But I definitely think there are good options in your price range.
5) I think it's cool that you want to live in Cleveland proper, but don't be too quick to disregard some suburbs. Some of them don't really feel so suburban. Lakewood, Cleveland Heights especially. But if you are dead set on living in Cleveland, I'll only address that. Like any city, it depends on the area. There are good areas and bad areas. But no matter what, you are in a city, so you need to always take steps to keep you from making yourself seem like a target. I do not live in Cleveland proper, but I work downtown and spend a lot of time in Ohio City, Tremont, and the Shaker Square/Larchmere area. I personally have never had any problems with crime. Never been a victim, never seen it happening. That being said, crime does happen in all of those places. I don't think it's anything to live in fear of though. You'll be fine!
6) Grittiness? I think Cleveland has some cool grit to it. There is certainly some urban decay type stuff going on, but it has been getting less and less. Sure, some areas look kinda worn down. But then there are other areas that will amaze you! University Circle, for example, is simply lovely. Downtown is also really nice looking for the most part, as is Ohio City. Tremont, Shaker Square, Detroit-Shoreway also have a nice charm to them I think.
7) Public Transit vs. Driving - The RTA does frustrate me sometimes, but I think overall it's pretty good. I live a half a mile from a rapid station, so I use the rapid to go downtown and to the westside on a regular basis. Combined with my bike, I get everywhere i need to go. Cleveland is actually a pretty good city to bike in. I do not own a car at all and I feel that my transportation is perfectly fine here. I would just recommend becoming very familiar with the schedules to avoid waiting out at the station. The Rapid at least is virtually always on time, so if the site says the train comes at 1:40, it'll pretty much always be there at exactly 1:40, definitely before 1:43. It might take some time to get totally comfortable with what's going on with RTA because they are kinda bad at explaining themselves sometimes, but after a few weeks, I have faith you'll have it down. One problem I do have with the public transportation is that the Rapid Green line closes at 12 midnight, Blue line at 12:15, Red line around 12:30. So that's kinda a personal bummer for my night life, but there are other lines like the Health Line that run 24/7. I guess the quality of transport also kinda depends on where in the city you live. Some places it's really great, other more removed areas, not so much.
8) Location/Weather – I love Cleveland weather. Some people talk about no sun and I have no idea what they are talking about. The sun definitely shines enough. I don't get all depressed in winter. I actually like the snow and having 4 seasons. If you are into it being warm all the time with no clouds ever, then I guess this isn't the place for you. However, I would also say that you are missing out on a lot to not live here because you think it's not sunny enough.
9) Beaches - I don't know if you can really get to any of the beaches that easily by transit, but that's where the bike comes in for me! I think it's a nice summer activity- ride the bike to the beach and then just sit and relax for the day. Lately the beaches have been crowded because it's been really really unreasonably hot. I guess they usually have a good number of people on them, but I don't go more than like twice a summer.
10) Shopping - As far as in the city itself, Tower City I think is the only big mall. I really like Tower City though. Some good stores, people, nice food court, in the center of the city. The most popular malls though are in the suburbs, which makes sense. I usually associate malls with suburbia. Those would be Legacy Village and Beachwood Place (across the street from each other on the east side) and Crocker Park in Westlake.
11) Bar Scene - OK, the bar scene, this I know! Not a huge drinker either, but I go out a lot. Downtown there are some good nightlife options. The Warehouse District has a lot of club-type places with a young crowd and dancing. For me, I have to be in the mood for it. When I am, it's really fun. Lots of people, real party atmosphere. Great for letting loose. There are some other sports bars like Winkin Lizard and Panini's downtown too. West 25th Street in Ohio City has some nice bars too with awesome beers. A lot more chill than downtown, no college influence, but still really cool. Same kinda think in Tremont, places like Edison's Pub and the Treehouse. A more collegey place is Coventry on the east side in Cleveland Heights. Pretty cool area, always lots of people on the weekends. I personally recommend Wednesday night mug nights at the B-Side. Lee Road in Cleveland Heights is also one of my favorites. Chill bars with great people, especially at the Tavern Company! I love that place. Very walkable, reasonable prices to boot. For me personally, I also go to see a lot of live music at rock clubs, so those are also good places to go. I'd recommend the Grog Shop on Coventry, Happy Dog in Detroit Shoreway, Barking Spider and Euclid Tavern at University Circle, Now that's Class on Detroit (by Lakewood border), and the Beachland Ballroom in North Collinwood.
12) A Good Social/Dating Scene – As a native, I'm not sure if Cleveland is transplant friendly, but I don't see why it wouldn't be. There is actually an organization that would love to hear from you though: globalclevelandinitiative.com. They work to recruit people to move to the area and get you involved in the city. I actually think the people that aren't from here have a much more positive feeling about the city and many times know much more and appreciate much more than native Clevelanders. Some of us have just been to used to the same old routine we've been doing forever and only want to think about the negatives. Most transplants I know are much more enthusiastic about getting out and doing things and really experiencing everything out there.
13) Population - I disagree that population always means the city is getting worse. I don't like to see it, but I also cannot deny the obvious progress that's been made in the city in the last decade, despite the loss of population. Cleveland is definitely not dying. Population has exploded in a several areas, especially downtown and Ohio City. They're really quite vibrant now. Cleveland's inner city is growing faster than its suburbs as young adults flock downtown | cleveland.com
14) Acceptance - Cleveland is definitely no Bible Belt. Just ask the people in Cincinnati, they'll call us heathen socialists. Politically, Cleveland always votes Democrat. It is undoubtedly the most liberal city in Ohio. I'm also pretty liberal and I like it just fine here. I don't know how "different" I am, but from what I see, "non-traditional" looking people seem to get along quite fine.
I think overall, Cleveland is the most underrated city in the country. Constantly scoffed at for stereotypes from 30-40 years ago, never given a chance by the nation at large. The reality is quite different than what you've heard. It's not all great. Afterall, it's a city with city problems, but there is really no other place I'd rather be. This place is unique and it grows on you. You gotta live here to really get it, and I hope you do move here! Good luck with everything!
A little shocked that:
- You would get a tat like that for a city you haven't even spent an evening in
and
- That you could possibly consider moving ANYWHERE else with a tat like that
I think BJimmy summed it up pretty well. There are plenty of "unskilled" jobs here. Plenty of machine shop/manufacturing jobs. Well, maybe not PLENTY but they are here. Last fall they even had a big recruitment type thing trying to get the word out that skilled machine shop / factory jobs are coming back to this town and it's getting harder to find employees.
With 10 G's in your pocket you could easily run 6-7 months without even getting a job. Yes it is THAT affordable here.
Also agree with BJimmy that you should not count out some of the 216 'Burbs particularly Lakewood.
I think you'd find a good fit in most of the "trendier" Cleveland areas: Coventry, Tremont, Ohio City and even Kamms Corner or the West Shoreway Clifton area: some times referred to as "The Edge" because it is on the edge of Cleveland that borders Lakewood. Marketing campaign Cleveland tried last summer. Don't think it took. You could bike to the beach from there.
Do yourself a favor and DO NOT move to Cleveland. Why would you move to a city that shows no real sign of a turnaround and continues to lose population every year? Taxes are high, city services are abysmal and crime is a problem...not good signs for a city. And things will be getting worse. Here is an article from today's paper for you to read:
Cleveland is cheap to live in for a reason and that is because there is no demand for the real estate. If considering a move to a new state, pick one that has equally cheap living, lower taxes, growing population and a better job picture. Google is your friend...do some more research before making a move that you will regret.
bacaboy, it's obvious that you have already left or are planning to leave Cleveland soon. Sorry you didn't enjoy your time here. I don't understand exactly what you get out of continuously trying to scare people away.
The study sounds legit, but it is hardly a problem unique to Cleveland. The guy who conducted it also wants Cleveland to adapt and better itself and avoid all that potential nastiness, so I at least see that as positive in a way.
Also, I see your one negative article and raise you five positive ones!
Not trying to "scare" anyone but provide another point of view. I see no forum rule that states that all posts need to be pro-Cleveland. If the same things were being said in this forum in the mid-90's, you ALL would have been wrong. Cleveland has gotten worse in the last 20 years. Is there evidence that it is turning a corner? Maybe, but maybe not.
In the decade plus that I have been here I have been reading about the "comeback" for Cleveland that is right around the corner. I'm still waiting for it to show up. Maybe it will...I do hope it does. But I think I'm helping people by warning them of the many dangers making a longer term commitment to Cleveland.
The bottom line is that for the city/area to prosper, it must attract people. The pros are well known (lake, cost of living, etc) but have not changed the slow decline of the area. From a business perspective, there is NO reason to choose Cleveland or Ohio when even nearby states are doing better. Pittsburgh is doing significantly better than Cleveland because Pennsylvania and that city are more business friendly. Again, without business, there are no jobs. Any without jobs, there will not be people.
Just a view for people to read. I respect that you don't agree and I would hope that you respect my view and not try to stifle it because you don't agree.
I do respect your opinion, I personally just don't think that such a negative picture is very accurate anymore. While you are not necessarily wrong in your views, I feel that your points are much more descriptive of the city 10 years ago. Fact is that downtown Cleveland IS attracting more businesses and the recent population boom there is because of that. The downtown population has more than doubled in the last decade and most of those living there are young. They cannot build apartments quick enough to meet demand. Listen to the NPR piece that I posted. I also feel that people could be attracted here even without a lucrative business job. In my opinion, the amenities here are great, everything is accessible, and we don't have to put up with ridiculous crowds or huge financial costs to have them. This could be a great attraction for people that I think the city needs to work with more. There is also a huge entrepreneurial spirit here. If you want to start a business, Cleveland is actually a place where you have a decent shot of doing it.
Cleveland's population will likely continue to fall in the near future, but in my opinion, you will see a modest upswing probably in 10 or so years, hopefully. Things don't just happen over night. If you're doing it right, it takes a little time. There are no quick fixes to such complex problems that you elude to. However, I don't think that is a valid reason to just give up on a city and discourage anyone from trying it out.
But back to the original point of this thread... I reiterate, while not everyone will like our area, I personally do think that the OP would feel at home in Cleveland!
The bottom line is that for the city/area to prosper, it must attract people. The pros are well known (lake, cost of living, etc) but have not changed the slow decline of the area. From a business perspective, there is NO reason to choose Cleveland or Ohio when even nearby states are doing better. Pittsburgh is doing significantly better than Cleveland because Pennsylvania and that city are more business friendly. Again, without business, there are no jobs. Any without jobs, there will not be people.
Unemployment rank by 'nearby' state (with a population larger than 2.5 million):
Also, if Pittsburgh is doing 'significantly' better, why are they still losing population and only 0.1% better in the unemployment column? If anything, we're about equal.
Quote:
Just a view for people to read. I respect that you don't agree and I would hope that you respect my view and not try to stifle it because you don't agree.
Nobody armed with facts agrees nor should be expected to agree with opposing views armed only with uninformed opinions.
Last edited by Cleveland_Collector; 07-10-2012 at 04:16 PM..
Do yourself a favor and DO NOT move to Cleveland. Why would you move to a city that shows no real sign of a turnaround and continues to lose population every year? Taxes are high, city services are abysmal and crime is a problem...not good signs for a city. And things will be getting worse. Here is an article from today's paper for you to read:
This is an article is more about urban sprawl than anything. It applies to most major metros.
Quote:
Cleveland is cheap to live in for a reason and that is because there is no demand for the real estate. If considering a move to a new state, pick one that has equally cheap living, lower taxes, growing population and a better job picture. Google is your friend...do some more research before making a move that you will regret.
You might want to heed your own advice. Tbh, I hope you don't and leave quickly. You obviously need to.
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Well it's been a good 4 years since I was last there, and since I've never even spent the night, I would like to know a few things about this city I fell in love with many years ago.
I know Cleveland doesn't have a South Beach, but how many beaches are reachable by transit, and how crowded do they get? And can any of you think of any other good spots outside of the beaches to people watch as well?
Since I have no desire to live in California, is Cleveland a really accepting place, or is it more close minded and "bible belted"? I'm looking for a very liberal and open place like San Francisco.
