Population Concerns (Cleveland: section 8, to rent, lofts)

[Peregrine]

For once I can't disagree with you.

[RatKing216]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

So Ratking? Have you decided?
Ratking: you need to get here. Now. You are missing out, brother. Your first Stoli Doli at the Treehouse is on me.

Well Peregrine, I am leaning (heavily) toward Cleveland still, but I only have $5,000 saved so far. My goal is to have $13,000* because that way I can get a cheap $3,000 car and pay one year (in full) on my own apartment when I get there. Plus even after that, I should still have a good $3k-$4k left I figure. I want to be smart about it since I'm going out there on a dream without anything. I will be using my week vacation at work (in April or so) to go out there and look for work as well as sign a lease. But if I don't land a job during that week, I do still plan on getting a place and paying the year (at least 6 months anyway) since that's the only way I'll probably get accepted without employment. Plus I really want a place of my own. I've done the whole "Room For Rent" situation pretty much my entire life. It's time for my own place.
Now I will be starting a tread about this next question I'm about to ask, but since Cleveland is a "Rust-Belt City" and most all of the Industrial work left the city decades ago... Is there still any factory/industrial work still left in Cleveland?
And I think I just might take you up on that offer for a Stoli Doli (whatever that is) when I get out there.

*I have saved my $5,000 in a total of 18 weeks. How? Because, although 33, I am staying with my parents right now. I do have a wife, but I haven't lived with her for over 3 years now! You think it's time to file those divorce papers? LOL. Anyway, I'm using this opportunity to save every penny that I can! I make $11.92/hr right now and average 50-70 hours per week. It's honestly cheaper for the company to pay the Overtime rather than pay out Insurance on another employee I guess. How that works I'll never know. :/ And actually this brings up one final thought for everyone... What are the chances of landing a job in the Cleveland area that pays the same $11.92/hr or better? Remember, I have no College Degree and I will be doing entry level factory/industrial work probably. Thanks.

[Peregrine]

Yes, there is factory work here.
Yes, you are correct, we have lost 1,000's of these types of jobs since the heyday of being THE rust belt town. But the fact is we are still making stuff here. In fact as I think I mentioned, last winter there was a good sized "Job Fair" downtown because many local tool & die shops and smaller manufacturers were having a very hard time finding employees. It was to find employees and to let people know "hey these jobs are still here".

Greater Cleveland manufacturers testing new strategies to fight skills gap | cleveland.com

Snippet from that article:
According to a recent analysis by the business attraction group Team Northeast Ohio, manufacturing helped to lift the region from the recession quicker than most of the country. With factories hiring, the 18-county region covered by Team NEO added nearly 30,000 jobs last year, tamping down the regional unemployment rate to 8 percent, below both the state and national rates.
Despite two decades of factory closings and layoffs, manufacturing still matters mightily in Greater Cleveland. It accounts for 155,467 jobs in the seven-county region -- about 13 percent of all jobs -- and the largest share of the gross regional product.


Did a search for FACTORY on Careerboard.com
25 hits. Here's a sample:

Production workers needed ASAP! (Strongsville)
Production workers needed ASAP! (Strongsville) All Shifts - 9-12$hr – Full Time A leader in cold formed steel and metal productsseeks individuals to start immediately on all shifts. The positions are longterm,....
Full-Time | Salary not Determined | Strongsville, OH
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FEATURED JOB
08/02/2012
Immediately Hiring: Saw Operating Trainee
Immediately Hiring: Saw Operating Trainee Location: Willoughby, Ohio. Pay Rate: $9-11/hr. First Shift: 7:00am-3:30pm We are dedicated to the relentless pursuit of....
Full-Time | Salary not Determined | Willoughby, OH
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FEATURED JOB
08/02/2012
NOW HIRING – MACHINE OPERATORS
Our Painesville area client, a leading manufacturer of packaging products, is currently seeking responsible, dedicated machine operators to join their team AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This is a fast-paced, physical position. The ideal candidate....
Full-Time | Salary not Determined | Painesville, OH
Global Technical Recruiters
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FEATURED JOB
08/01/2012
Now Hiring: Machine Operators (Mentor)
Now Hiring: MachineOperators (Mentor) All Shifts, Full Time 10-12$/hr We are a precision metal fabricator specializing in high end sheet metal fabrication, machining, welding and....
Full-Time | Salary not Determined | Mentor, OH
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FEATURED JOB
08/01/2012
Trainee Machine Operators – Hiring Immediately
TraineeMachine Operators – Hiring Immediately Filling slots for immediate interviews Full time, 1st shift, $9-13/hr We have been a manufacturer of round wire compression springs for over 50....
Full-Time | Salary not Determined | Euclid, OH
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FEATURED JOB
08/01/2012
Hiring Immediately: Manufacturing/Machine Op
Hiring Immediately: Manufacturing/MachineOp AllShifts, Full Time 10-12$/hr Our company, established in 1945, continues to grow, and hasopen positions to be filled immediately. We offer a wide array of....
Full-Time | Salary not Determined | Cleveland, OH
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A Stoli Doli is a Pineapple Martini. The Treehouse's signature drink. Vodka, a smidge of pineapple juice and a big slice of pineapple that has been marinating in vodka for a few days. I think the pineapple is stronger then the drink.

[Peregrine]

"OhioMeansJobs.com, the state's online jobs listing, details hundreds of openings for skilled and semiskilled factory workers within 50 miles of Cleveland. On Wednesday, the website listed openings in the area for 92 welders, 193 machinists and 242 manufacturing workers in general."

This was in January, but check that site, too.

[SmittyXCWRU]

One reason I have to be somewhat down on Cleveland's population in the near term is that while a lot of neighborhoods are improving, those areas all seem to be geared yuppie/hipster types who will likely move away (or at least out to the suburbs) in 10 years anyway. You can't build a city of 24-year-olds because people don't stay 24 years old forever.

And while the young adult areas are flourishing, they only make up a tiny fraction of city and the remaining stable working and middle class neighborhoods are slowly decaying. It seems like most of the traditionally stable west side areas aren't doing as well as they once were, like Cudell or Clark-Fulton, or the area around W130th and Bellaire. Those areas still have a long ways down to go and unless they are turned around, anyone want to guess how the future of West Boulevard goes as Cudell declines, or out toward the airport as Bellaire declines, or Brooklyn Center/Old Brooklyn as Clark-Fulton declines? Or on the east side, the future of Lee-Miles as Mt. Pleasant declines? I also don't see the much of the east side turning around any time soon, but I do think other than the far southeast part of it and perhaps Slavic Village and North Collinwood, and obviously University Circle and Downtown, there just isn't much further to fall. University Circle and Downtown are both great opportunities for the city to gain some residents, but the other east side areas I mentioned still strike me as being more on the decline than the upswing.

Mostly it just looks to me like every stable area with families is either declining or seemingly next in line to decline as surrounding areas bottom out and you can't rebuild the city until that changes. Gentrification does bring us closer to one day being able to attract families since it at least results in safer neighborhoods, but that takes time, maybe even a generation.

[delusion]

Originally Posted by SmittyXCWRU

One reason I have to be somewhat down on Cleveland's population in the near term is that while a lot of neighborhoods are improving, those areas all seem to be geared yuppie/hipster types who will likely move away (or at least out to the suburbs) in 10 years anyway. You can't build a city of 24-year-olds because people don't stay 24 years old forever.

Your concern makes sense....but you're assuming that the suburbs will appeal to these 24 year olds later on in life. It very well may, but there is a lot of data and evidence in reality in other regions, that it may no longer be the case. Many of the younger generation brought up on technology find suburbs inefficient, boring, and wasteful. That is in sharp contrast to their parents generation which were brought up on the idea that the bigger meant better...hence monster truck SUVs and McMansions on over sized lots.

Another thing to consider is that as you said "people don't stay 24 for ever", BUT there will always be 24 year olds. What I mean by that is that if you build a successful neighborhood that attracts younger people, then even as the original 24 year olds age and possibly move on, there will be new 24 year olds moving in to take there place. Where I live in LA, The Silverlake area is a great example of this. Gentrification happened there a long time ago. Since then, there has always been new young "hipsters" moving in to replace the "original hipsters".

I visited Cleveland just this past June, and was surprised how much I liked it. We checked out Ohio City and some of Detroit Shoreway as well as drove around randomly in the industrial area and a couple not so great neighborhoods. From what I saw Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway are well on there way. The energy and the people there were "real" for lack of better terms. No pretentiousness, no hidden agenda. Just a very cool creative "make sh_t happen" energy that was very grass roots....very organic...an ideal foundation for genuine growth and change.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by SmittyXCWRU

Mostly it just looks to me like every stable area with families is either declining or seemingly next in line to decline as surrounding areas bottom out and you can't rebuild the city until that changes. Gentrification does bring us closer to one day being able to attract families since it at least results in safer neighborhoods, but that takes time, maybe even a generation.

I despise the term and the very idea of "gentrification". The notion is that the "gentry" come in and that magically makes a place better. In actuality, it does not make a place better, but pushes the poor somewhere else, and brings in the ex-suburbanite yuppies who pollute the city with their stuck-up attitudes and materialism. Rather, we should work to uplift the people that live there already, and make it a place that good people want to live. This will benefit everyone and not just a certain socio-economic subculture of the population.

[SquareBetterThanAll]

The problem Cleveland has in retaining young adults as they have kids is afaik there are really no palatable public schools left. I live in Akron in the city and at least in some neighborhoods you can piece together decent schools k-12. I've pondered what I would do if I moved to Cleveland and with a family I can only see living in Shaker to have a reasonably urban environment and decent public schools.

And yes indeed there are college educated 20-somethings who desire to stay in the city if feasible. I'm sorry that Ne Ohio isn't further along in developing/redeveloping the urban infrastructure. I find the idea that Akron is even considering light rail (Metro has had the foresight to bank unused rail lines) thrilling if unlikely.

On the popularity of southern cities many are nothing more than giant suburbs
You have a downtown and then miles of suburban style development, plazas, and Applebees. A little disturbing to think this is considered contemporary urban development. I like Ohio's urban layout and I wish we as a region would embrace it more. One thing i do wish we would adopt from the south is a more regional approach to government.

[RatKing216]

Speaking of the West 130th area, I do have a question. I have an Apartment Guide from May of 2009 (the last time I was in Cleveland), and although things do change there is one ad that has always caught my eye. It's the ad for The Apartments at Stuart House located at 14411 Triskett Road. How is that area? One Bedrooms are only $455!!! Of course that's probably changed, but I bet I could still score a place under $500. And also West Tech Lofts at 2201 W. 93rd Street. That's probably out of my price range though. No price is listed anyway. :/ Oh and one last place (One Bedrooms are $430) is at 4102 Valley Road. I did speak to the manager of that property and she is willing to rent to me (even without a job [worse case scenario]) if I put 6 months down. I think the rent is at $450ish now though. Either way, two of the 3 are for sure in my budget!!! So how are these areas, and what neighborhoods are they located in?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

I despise the term and the very idea of "gentrification". The notion is that the "gentry" come in and that magically makes a place better. In actuality, it does not make a place better, but pushes the poor somewhere else, and brings in the ex-suburbanite yuppies who pollute the city with their stuck-up attitudes and materialism. Rather, we should work to uplift the people that live there already, and make it a place that good people want to live. This will benefit everyone and not just a certain socio-economic subculture of the population.

So, you mean to tell me that the poor were living downtown before this all happened?

The part you don't seem to understand is that it takes all kinds to make it work. The people who "pollute" the city (your term, not mine) are also the ones spending money at the places that the people who need to be uplifted have jobs at. The very notion that gentrification displaces the poor is usually ill-founded. Yes, some poor people will move. Others will stay and fit in. There are classic examples of this all over the city (Tremont is a great example). The "yuppies" came in and made the area better and both they and the indigenous Tremont dwellers are better off because of it. One thing is for sure... nothing will happen without people who are willing to make investments.