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Andrew, enough with the trolling. I live in Chicago, am originally from Cleveland (and still consider myself a Clevelander), but you don't see me harping on the same anti-Cleveland points repeatedly. Your consistent negativity has VERY little to do with the forums' specific topics, and even though you make some valid points here and there, the overall tone and nonstop single-minded postings are tiresome and redundant. Stop being a $hithead.
Well, to each his own, I guess. I do hope you're not making the mistake of cherry-picking the best Cleveland has to offer and comparing it to the more "backward" parts of Chicago and ignoring the rest. Anyway, I have noticed that, from a cultural standpoint, Chicago gets movies that never make it to Cleveland, I can find different types of ethnic food here that I can't find there... the list goes on and on. You yourself mentioned "career/employment considerations" -- and that's a huge one for most people. Plus driving a car is now out of the question for me. I think I'll stick with the place that offers me the most options and total possibilities overall.
I am comparing reality/actual lifestyle. Yea, Chicago might have some Michelin 3 star restaurants, doesn't mean that you're ever eating there. In reality, you're out in the cold waiting for the bus to get to work. Here I can afford to drive a nice car that is parked outside my single family house in a nice neighborhood. I can "cherry pick" the best things to do in Cleveland, and actually do them. I can hop in my car and go any where I like and pull up right outside and park without it costing $20.
Most options and total possibilities isn't about dreaming, it's about what you actual do day in/out.
As far as the ethnic restaurants/movies -- I am not sure you looked hard enough when you were here in Cleveland. Chicago is not exactly a global cultural hub anyways... 90% of the people are from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana or Ohio...
I am comparing reality/actual lifestyle. Yea, Chicago might have some Michelin 3 star restaurants, doesn't mean that you're ever eating there. In reality, you're out in the cold waiting for the bus to get to work. Here I can afford to drive a nice car that is parked outside my single family house in a nice neighborhood. I can "cherry pick" the best things to do in Cleveland, and actually do them. I can hop in my car and go any where I like and pull up right outside and park without it costing $20.
Most options and total possibilities isn't about dreaming, it's about what you actual do day in/out.
As far as the ethnic restaurants/movies -- I am not sure you looked hard enough when you were here in Cleveland. Chicago is not exactly a global cultural hub anyways... 90% of the people are from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana or Ohio...
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!
The day to day...real life...is why I am so excited to move back. Low stress, and lots of great options for families.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,315,809 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Rich
I am comparing reality/actual lifestyle. Yea, Chicago might have some Michelin 3 star restaurants, doesn't mean that you're ever eating there. In reality, you're out in the cold waiting for the bus to get to work. Here I can afford to drive a nice car that is parked outside my single family house in a nice neighborhood. I can "cherry pick" the best things to do in Cleveland, and actually do them. I can hop in my car and go any where I like and pull up right outside and park without it costing $20.
Most options and total possibilities isn't about dreaming, it's about what you actual do day in/out.
As far as the ethnic restaurants/movies -- I am not sure you looked hard enough when you were here in Cleveland. Chicago is not exactly a global cultural hub anyways... 90% of the people are from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana or Ohio...
And why do you think they're leaving Ohio, etc., and coming here? There are plenty moving this way, compared to relatively few (like yourself) in the other direction. Are you saying they're wrong?
Anyway, I dispute your 90 percent figure because I've read stats that say 30 percent of Chicago's population is foreign born. On a regular basis, I meet as many transplants from places like Mexico, China, Vietnam, The Phillippines, or India as I do from the Midwest.
Every ranking I've ever seen puts Chicago squarely in the Top Ten list of global cities worldwide. Cleveland? Not even close.
Your "reality/actual lifestyle" might differ considerably from mine, or any number of other people's. Agreed? Maybe plenty of other people actually do things here "day to day" that you did not. Are you representative of all people? If you've lived in both Chicago and Cleveland and you prefer Cleveland, I'd very strongly suspect you're in the minority.
I did the "drive a car everywhere" lifestyle for the better part of 20 years. I personally am so happy to be done with it. Cars are a pain and require constant maintenance and attention. Besides, the typical American automobile-centric lifestyle might not be sustainable going forward. Many experts warn that we're at or already past Peak Oil, and it's downhill from here. Ten or twenty years from now, you might not have the option of using automobiles for everything like you do today.
I prefer to "get ahead of the game" and be carfree and to live in apartments rather than single-family homes and to be able to walk to get all my everyday needs (and many wants) and to use public transit for the rest. It's called "urban living", and that's what makes for a real city. Cleveland offers only a hint of such an urban lifestyle in a handful of small pockets, and even there it falls well short of what I'm talking about, in my own experience.
I like being able to leave my apartment in my dense urban neighborhood and just walk down the street a few blocks and shop at, say, Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, or go see a foreign film or whatever. My Cleveland friends have to travel all over the metro area just to do those simple things -- Crocker Park for this, Cleveland Heights for that. They either have to drive long distances, or look at meager bus schedules and plan very carefully in order to avoid being stranded. Do I want a lifestyle like that? No, thanks. Too much running around, too much stress. That's not my idea of good living.
And yes, I did "look hard enough" to find the same options in Cleveland as here. Easy enough to do in the internet age. My statement stands.
If you're trying to market Cleveland as a "cultural Mecca" to people from Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Nashville, etc., I say Go for it. If you're trying to market Cleveland as such to people from NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, and other cities of that caliber, I'd advise you to be careful.
Well, to each his own, I guess. I do hope you're not making the mistake of cherry-picking the best Cleveland has to offer and comparing it to the more "backward" parts of Chicago and ignoring the rest. Anyway, I have noticed that, from a cultural standpoint, Chicago gets movies that never make it to Cleveland, I can find different types of ethnic food here that I can't find there... the list goes on and on. You yourself mentioned "career/employment considerations" -- and that's a huge one for most people. Plus driving a car is now out of the question for me. I think I'll stick with the place that offers me the most options and total possibilities overall.
Glad it works for you...enjoy all those ''movies'' that those poor souls in Cleveland will never get to see. Imagine all the "movies" New Yorkers and Angelenos get to see that never make it to Chicago. Geez, for going on about how non-snobby Chicagoans are you sure sound snobby. There's that Chicago insecurity again.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,315,809 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by citymama
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!
The day to day...real life...is why I am so excited to move back. Low stress, and lots of great options for families.
And fewer such options for singles.
Back in my Cleveland days, I used to laugh to myself when I heard people tell other people why they liked living where they did: "Oh, I love Fairview Park, it's very unique because it's such a family-oriented community." I'd think to myself, as opposed to what -- the other 60-odd suburbs in Cuyahoga County that you apparently think are not family oriented?
And also keep in mind that your idea of "low stress" might be someone else's idea of "high stress". And vice versa. To me it's high stress to have to travel all over an entire metro area just to get the things that I could walk to in a different city, and even then, find options are fewer and more limited.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,315,809 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
Glad it works for you...enjoy all those ''movies'' that those poor souls in Cleveland will never get to see. Imagine all the "movies" New Yorkers and Angelenos get to see that never make it to Chicago. Geez, for going on about how non-snobby Chicagoans are you sure sound snobby. There's that Chicago insecurity again.
Just what is "snobby" about pointing out what are readily verifiable facts?
And why do you think they're leaving Ohio, etc., and coming here? There are plenty moving this way, compared to relatively few in the other direction. Are you saying they're wrong?
Anyway, I dispute your 90 percent figure because I've read stats that say 30 percent of Chicago's population is foreign born. On a regular basis, I meet as many transplants from places like Mexico, China, Vietnam, The Phillippines, or India as I do from the Midwest.
Every ranking I've ever seen puts Chicago squarely in the Top Ten list of global cities worldwide. Cleveland? Not even close.
Your "reality/actual lifestyle" might differ considerably from mine, or any number of other people's. Agreed? Maybe plenty of other people actually do things here "day to day" that you did not. Are you representative of all people? If you've lived in both Chicago and Cleveland and you prefer Cleveland, I'd very strongly suspect you're in the minority.
I did the "drive a car everywhere" lifestyle for the better part of 20 years. I personally am so happy to be done with it. Cars are a pain and require constant maintenance and attention. Besides, the typical American automobile-centric lifestyle might not be sustainable going forward. Many experts warn that we're at or already past Peak Oil, and it's downhill from here. Ten or twenty years from now, you might not have the option of using automobiles for everything like you do today.
I prefer to "get ahead of the game" and be carfree and to live in apartments rather than single-family homes and to be able to walk to get all my everyday needs and to use public transit for the rest. It's called "urban living", and that's what makes for a real city. Cleveland offers only a hint of such an urban lifestyle in a handful of small pockets, and even there it falls well short of what I'm talking about, in my own experience.
And yes, I did "look hard enough" to find the same options in Cleveland as here. Easy enough to do in the internet age. My statement stands.
If you're trying to market Cleveland as a "cultural Mecca" to people from Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Nashville, etc., I say Go for it. If you're trying to market Cleveland as such to people from NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, and other cities of that caliber, I'd advise you to be careful.
Definitely be careful doing it in Chicago and don't worry about all those transplants flocking to Chicago cuz they ain't doing it so much anymore 'cause Chicago's economy is in the tank.
And why do you think they're leaving Ohio, etc., and coming here? There are plenty moving this way, compared to relatively few (like yourself) in the other direction. Are you saying they're wrong?
Anyway, I dispute your 90 percent figure because I've read stats that say 30 percent of Chicago's population is foreign born. On a regular basis, I meet as many transplants from places like Mexico, China, Vietnam, The Phillippines, or India as I do from the Midwest.
Every ranking I've ever seen puts Chicago squarely in the Top Ten list of global cities worldwide. Cleveland? Not even close.
Your "reality/actual lifestyle" might differ considerably from mine, or any number of other people's. Agreed? Maybe plenty of other people actually do things here "day to day" that you did not. Are you representative of all people? If you've lived in both Chicago and Cleveland and you prefer Cleveland, I'd very strongly suspect you're in the minority.
I did the "drive a car everywhere" lifestyle for the better part of 20 years. I personally am so happy to be done with it. Cars are a pain and require constant maintenance and attention. Besides, the typical American automobile-centric lifestyle might not be sustainable going forward. Many experts warn that we're at or already past Peak Oil, and it's downhill from here. Ten or twenty years from now, you might not have the option of using automobiles for everything like you do today.
I prefer to "get ahead of the game" and be carfree and to live in apartments rather than single-family homes and to be able to walk to get all my everyday needs and to use public transit for the rest. It's called "urban living", and that's what makes for a real city. Cleveland offers only a hint of such an urban lifestyle in a handful of small pockets, and even there it falls well short of what I'm talking about, in my own experience.
And yes, I did "look hard enough" to find the same options in Cleveland as here. Easy enough to do in the internet age. My statement stands.
If you're trying to market Cleveland as a "cultural Mecca" to people from Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Nashville, etc., I say Go for it. If you're trying to market Cleveland as such to people from NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, and other cities of that caliber, I'd advise you to be careful.
I still say you can't handle the fact that Cleveland is getting some positive exposure and change. We know you left Cleveland 20 years ago; deal with the fact that many people like Cleveland and may want to move or return there. I have had years of experience with Chicago's insecurity issues.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,315,809 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
I still say you can't handle the fact that Cleveland is getting some positive exposure and change.
No, that's not it at all. I'm just keeping it real (check out my new status update; I think I'm sticking with that from now on). People need facts. They need the good, the bad, and the ugly. They don't need hyperbole and sugarcoating and outright deception. I'm here to provide some badly-needed balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
We know you left Cleveland 20 years ago; deal with the fact that many people like Cleveland and may want to move or return there.
From the looks of the Census figures, very few. It appears many more people want out than in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
I have had years of experience with Chicago's insecurity issues.
If Chicagoans feel any "insecurity" about their city and where it stands in the grand scheme of things, I'd say it's only in comparison to NYC. And most Chicagoans truly don't care. Believe me, Chicagoans are feeling absolutely no insecurity vis-a-vis places like Cleveland.
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