East suburbs of Cleveland becoming ghetto (Garfield Heights, East Cleveland: crime rate, loans, subdivision)

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

I think Cleveland is the only metro over 500,000 in the entire country, besides Detroit, that is losing population. There's a reason people are moving away from here I believe. I hope you're right and that the area stabilizes, I harbor no ill will towards Cleveland and know it offers a lot. Plenty of history there, believe Andrew Carnegie was from there too.

That would be Rockefeller. Carnegie was from Pittsburgh. Never EVER confuse Rockefeller with Carnegie in front of someone from either Cleveland or Pittsburgh.

The area lost a lot of industrial jobs, there's no denying that. The residents that used to fill those jobs who have not been able to adapt to the new economy have had to look elsewhere for employment. However, anyone with skills to succeed in the modern American economy can make it in Cleveland, and probably live a lot better than people elsewhere in the country, because of the abundance of amenities and low COL.

[ColdAilment]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

That would be Rockefeller. Carnegie was from Pittsburgh. Never EVER confuse Rockefeller with Carnegie in front of someone from either Cleveland or Pittsburgh.

The area lost a lot of industrial jobs, there's no denying that. The residents that used to fill those jobs who have not been able to adapt to the new economy have had to look elsewhere for employment. However, anyone with skills to succeed in the modern American economy can make it in Cleveland, and probably live a lot better than people elsewhere in the country, because of the abundance of amenities and low COL.

Lol, sorry. I learned it from watching the program, "The Men Who Built America", I guess I didn't retain that information too well.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

I think Cleveland is the only metro over 500,000 in the entire country, besides Detroit, that is losing population. There's a reason people are moving away from here I believe. I hope you're right and that the area stabilizes, I harbor no ill will towards Cleveland and know it offers a lot. Plenty of history there, believe Andrew Carnegie was from there too.

Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Akron, Syracuse, Toledo, Youngstown all are metros over 500,000 that lost population from 2000-2010.

[MichiVegas]

Originally Posted by andrew61

About three-fourths of Chicago's 200,000 population drop in 2010 came from the African-American ghettos and dovetails quite neatly with some 50,000 public housing units being torn down.

The population loss in Chicago has nothing to do with public housing units being torn down. Your numbers are way off too. You're exaggerating the proportion of losses coming from the black community, and wildly exaggerating the number of public housing units.

For one, there have been around 10,000 housing units torn down over the last 20 years. Not sure where you got 50,000 public housing units.

For another, the feds require that residents of the torn down buildings are given Section 8 vouchers for the same city, so the same residents mostly live in Chicago.

And finally, the black population losses in Chicago have been primarily middle class losses, not low income losses. Middle class people weren't living in Chicago projects.

And then what's your explanation for the very significant white population losses? Were they living in South Side projects too?

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

^Oy vei. Spoken like a true nudnick non-Jewish person from Solon who doesn't know what's really happening here. All of those stores on Taylor and Cedar are Orthodox. B'nai Yeshurin is the temple I was referring to as Heights Temple, and it moved quite a while ago to Beachwood. The Orthodox population, concentrated in a relatively small area, East of Taylor road, and around Cedar-Green in UH, remains strong-- probably the strongest anywhere in the US outside of NYC, but most of the less religious Jews have moved to the outer burbs (SH retains a strong population of less religious Jews). The parts of CH and UH that were once thriving Conservative and Reform Jewish neighborhoods are now mostly African American, with dropping home values and higher crime.

Oy vey, you must be a *******. It just so happens I am Jewish and yes I live in Solon, but I have lots of friends and family in the Cleveland Heights area and I go there quite often. And what exactly do you mean by "mostly" African American? Because Cleveland Heights, which has never been 100% Jewish, has like a 40-45% African American population of the whole city. Cleveland Heights is a big city though, and the African American families live mostly near the East Cleveland border. And yes, Cleveland Heights and University Heights did have a larger Jewish population in the past, but it's not like everybody Jewish moved away from there. The only reason they moved southeast is because of the boom in redevelopment in the southeast suburbs. Still, a good amount of Jewish people live in Cleveland Heights and University Heights. And besides, Beachwood is right next to Cleveland Heights and University Heights, so it's pretty much the same thing. And the home values aren't dropping in most areas, and an extreme spike of redevelopment has been happening along Cedar Road in Cleveland Heights and University Heights. Crime wise, it's not that much more than it ever has been. Lots of new restaurants and bars have been opening up in the Cedar-Lee area, attracting younger Jewish people to the area.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

I think Cleveland is the only metro over 500,000 in the entire country, besides Detroit, that is losing population. There's a reason people are moving away from here I believe. I hope you're right and that the area stabilizes, I harbor no ill will towards Cleveland and know it offers a lot. Plenty of history there, believe Andrew Carnegie was from there too.

Try over 2 million.

[AlCleve]

There has been much comment about white flight. I can only speak for what I see and that is when whites move out and the neighborhood becomes mostly black, the area declines. Just because whites move away does the neighborhood have to become ghetto? If whites want to flee, let them. The neighborhood can still be kept nice by African Americans, right? Why do whites have to live there for it to still be a nice neighborhood?

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by AlCleve

There has been much comment about white flight. I can only speak for what I see and that is when whites move out and the neighborhood becomes mostly black, the area declines. Just because whites move away does the neighborhood have to become ghetto? If whites want to flee, let them. The neighborhood can still be kept nice by African Americans, right? Why do whites have to live there for it to still be a nice neighborhood?

This is such an obvious troll question that I don't even know why I bother to respond, but obviously racial differences and socioeconomic differences go hand in hand. African Americans earn 60% less than White Americans, unemployment is higher among African Americans, accumulated wealth is 93% less for Black Americans than White Americans. It seems you're implying that Black people are the cause of an area's decline. Actually it's the reduction in wealth, rather than the changing race or ethnicity of the populace that contributes to the decline.

[AlCleve]

Where are you getting your figures? What jobs are paying Black Americans less than White Americans? Why is unemployment higher among African Americans? Do you not feel if someone, anyone, purchases property or even just rents, that, after children, it should be somewhere on the top of their list to take care of it and take pride in their neighborhood especially for their family's sake? From your statement it seems you are saying Black Americans move into a White American neighborhood that has been maintained and then it declines because the Black Americans cannot afford the maintenance. After the "white flight" you speak of occurred, the neighborhood slowly deteriorated into one of the worst ghettoes in America. None of the people prior to that time were wealthy or even considered rich or upper class. All worked regular jobs like bus driver, railroad worker, insurance person, mail person, mechanic, housekeeper, babysitter, factory worker, garbage man, small store owner, store clerk. Some drove far out of EC for their job, some took busses and the RTA. Not all jobs were close or even fairly close. All did the best they could and the neighborhood was nicely maintained and safe. That neighborhood had been there long before the mid 60s.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by AlCleve

Where are you getting your figures? What jobs are paying Black Americans less than White Americans? Why is unemployment higher among African Americans? Do you not feel if someone, anyone, purchases property or even just rents, that, after children, it should be somewhere on the top of their list to take care of it and take pride in their neighborhood especially for their family's sake? From your statement it seems you are saying Black Americans move into a White American neighborhood that has been maintained and then it declines because the Black Americans cannot afford the maintenance. After the "white flight" you speak of occurred, the neighborhood slowly deteriorated into one of the worst ghettoes in America. None of the people prior to that time were wealthy or even considered rich or upper class. All worked regular jobs like bus driver, railroad worker, insurance person, mail person, mechanic, housekeeper, babysitter, factory worker, garbage man, small store owner, store clerk. Some drove far out of EC for their job, some took busses and the RTA. Not all jobs were close or even fairly close. All did the best they could and the neighborhood was nicely maintained and safe. That neighborhood had been there long before the mid 60s.

I don't think he was saying that the same job, same employer, paid 60% less.