Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,316,982 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan
Call me biased, while Pittsburgh isn't a bad city (though I truly despise their football team) I'll take Cleveland any day. It's easier to navigate, and I'm not a huge fan of hills, which makes for a nightmare in the Winter time.
My worst memory of Pittsburgh was sitting on the passenger side of a car downtown during evening rush hour, reading a city map trying to tell my friend (who was behind the wheel) which turn to make in order to head for the expressway out of the city. I got confused, made him take a wrong turn, and we ended up in some tunnel that went on for something like five miles until we ended up in a completely different part of town and had no idea where we were.
I grew up in Youngstown and always associated more with Cleveland than Pittsburgh. I'm a fan of all the Cleveland sports teams, and growing up I always went to Cleveland, rather than Pittsburgh, for daytrips, events and concerts. I've lived in Pittsburgh (in the city - Southside) since graduating college last June. I just got back from a great weekend in Cleveland. My girlfriend and I stayed Downtown, went to the Cavs game Saturday night, the Browns game yesterday and did a bunch of shopping the rest of the time. Since Cleveland is fresh on my mind, I thought I'd weigh in on this topic with factors that I think are important, and which city/metro does them better.
"Big city" feel: Cleveland wins this one pretty easily. Downtown Cleveland is big, walkable and vibrant. There were people out and about all weekend, something you don't really see in downtown Pittsburgh. Granted, Pittsburgh's downtown is limited by geography, but aside from the few blocks that make up the cultural district and Market Square, there's absolutely nothing going on in downtown Pittsburgh on the weekends or after business hours.
Public transportation: Cleveland again. A light rail system that's actually useful for getting around the city proper? That alone wins this category for Cleveland. Plus, I've heard good things about the HealthLine, and I know Pittsburgh is looking to model it to better connect Downtown to some of the East End neighborhoods.
Neighborhoods in the city proper: Pittsburgh wins here. Like I said, Pittsburgh doesn't feel like a big city. It feels like a collection of neighborhoods. There seems a better variety of neighborhoods in the city to fit almost anyone's lifestyle. Maybe this is because I've never lived in Cleveland, so I don't know as much about the different neighborhoods. But where do the 20something recent college graduates live? I know Downtown Cleveland has a had a boom in population growth, but aside from that the only neighborhoods I ever hear people talking about moving to are Ohio City and Tremont.
Suburbs: Cleveland wins this one. All of Pittsburgh's suburbs are pretty generic, boring places with the only difference being which awful, slow moving road you have to take to get to the city. Cleveland has a lot of awesome, walkable suburbs with their own main streets and charm. I love going to shows at the Grog Shop, so I'm always walking around Coventry in Cleveland Heights.
Diversity: Cleveland. I actually heard Spanish being spoken outside the setting of a Mexican restaurant. I don't think I've ever heard that in Pittsburgh. Cleveland seems to have more diversity in general, while it seems the vast majority of Pittsburgh natives are of Eastern European decent.
Restaurants: Cleveland again. Michael Symon's work alone would win this for Cleveland. Cleveland seems to have a better selection of fine dining. Pittsburgh has some great spots as we'l, and it does seem like it's progressing rather quickly in the fine dining scene.
Nightlife: I don't really go out much, but I think Pittsburgh wins here. Cleveland doesn't really have anything that compares to the craziness that is Carson Street. West 6th is the best comparison to make. Pittsburgh also has some other great spots in Shadyside and Lawrenceville, but when I do go out, I stick to the Southside because I can walk everywhere.
Museums/zoos.: This one is pretty close. Both have great art museums, nice science centers and some unique offerings. Pittsburgh has the Andy Warhol Museum, while Cleveland has the Rock and Roll HOF. I like Pittsburgh's natural history museum more than Cleveland's. I like how the Pittsburgh Zoo also has an aquarium, and I really like the rainforest at the Cleveland Zoo. I recently went to the National Aviary in Pittsburgh for the first time, and I loved how close you could get to the penguins there (one of my favorite animals). I haven't had a chance to go to the new aquarium in Cleveland, so I can't fully judge this category.
Parks: This is also really close, but I think geography helps Cleveland win this category. Both cities have great park systems, but the fact that I can go to the beach at some Cleveland parks gives Cleveland the edge.
Sports facilities: Pittsburgh. PNC Park is the best baseball stadium I've ever been to. I love the Indians, I love going to the Jake, but it doesn't come close to matching PNC. Consol is nicer than the Q as well. Browns Stadium and Heinz Field are both great. In terms of teams, I'd rather have MLB, NFL and NBA than MLB, NFL and NHL, so Cleveland does win in that regard.
Roads: Cleveland wins easily. Navigating in Pittsburgh is a major PITA. There's a saying that Pittsburghers don't cross bridges. In my short time here, I've found myself becoming part of this stereotype. It's such a pain to get to some places that I usually just stick to my neighborhood for everything I need. I picked to live in one of the few completely flat neighborhoods that uses a grid system. A lot of the other neighborhoods are a combination of hills, twisting roads and goat paths. Cleveland also has better highway access with wider roads, making a lot easier to get in and out of the city.
People: Cleveland. In my experience, people in Cleveland just seem to be nicer and more pleasant in general. A lot of people in Pittsburgh really seem to live up to the white trash, Appalachian yinzer stereotypes. Also, I always hear a lot more horn honking in Pittsburgh than Cleveland.
My worst memory of Pittsburgh was sitting on the passenger side of a car downtown during evening rush hour, reading a city map trying to tell my friend (who was behind the wheel) which turn to make in order to head for the expressway out of the city. I got confused, made him take a wrong turn, and we ended up in some tunnel that went on for something like five miles until we ended up in a completely different part of town and had no idea where we were.
My brother-in-law said it best. He said it it is the only city where you have to go south to go north. Also, I remember us driving and seeing a sign saying Pittsburgh 6 miles. I was like "where?" Usually when you're 6 miles from Cleveland you see buildings, no matter what side of town you're on.
But where do the 20something recent college graduates live? I know Downtown Cleveland has a had a boom in population growth, but aside from that the only neighborhoods I ever hear people talking about moving to are Ohio City and Tremont.
Diversity: Cleveland. I actually heard Spanish being spoken outside the setting of a Mexican restaurant. I don't think I've ever heard that in Pittsburgh. Cleveland seems to have more diversity in general, while it seems the vast majority of Pittsburgh natives are of Eastern European decent.
Museums/zoos.: This one is pretty close. Both have great art museums, nice science centers and some unique offerings. Pittsburgh has the Andy Warhol Museum, while Cleveland has the Rock and Roll HOF. I like Pittsburgh's natural history museum more than Cleveland's. I like how the Pittsburgh Zoo also has an aquarium, and I really like the rainforest at the Cleveland Zoo. I recently went to the National Aviary in Pittsburgh for the first time, and I loved how close you could get to the penguins there (one of my favorite animals). I haven't had a chance to go to the new aquarium in Cleveland, so I can't fully judge this category.
20 somethings and recent grads live in Coventry and Little Italy as well. Ohio City and Tremont are the ordained "cool" neighborhoods, but I'd have no problem living at Shaker Square or Larchmere, Kamm's Corners, Cedar-Lee or Coventry, North Collinwood, Little Italy or other places in Lakewood.
Tons of Clevelanders are also Eastern European... I think it's a bit unfair to pass Eastern Europe off as just the same thing. Tell a Pole and a Russian that they're basically the same and see how that goes over. I don't know very many white people in Cleveland that don't have at least some Polish, Slovenian, Slovak, or Hungarian in them.
As far as museums, Cleveland wins by virtue of Cleveland Museum of Art alone. It's massive, it's beautiful, it's got an amazing collection, and it's free. Cleveland also has some nice places like the Western Reserve Historical Society that are really underrated. I don't really like MOCA or modern art in general, but having visited other modern art museums in other, even bigger, cities, I think MOCA is actually better designed and layed out than other places. And in a better neighborhood (you should see where Boston's Institute of Contemporary Art is, for example... like 100 yards off the street in the middle of a giant parking lot in an industrial area- yuck)
Not to be nit-picky, but Dean Martin was an Ohio boy, born in Steubenville.
I only included him because Steubenville (and Weirton, WV) are now marketing themselves as outer bedroom communities of Pittsburgh. A lot of people from those cities commute to Robinson Township, a suburban employment center in the western 'burbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
W. 25 Street > The Strip District. Not even close. Was actually pretty disappointed in the Strip District when I went there last year.
Sorry to hear that. I live a quick walk from the Strip District and truly love having Penzey's Spices, Penn Macaroni Co., Reyna Foods, Wholey's Seafood Market, Mon Aime Chocolatiers, Pittsburgh Popcorn, etc. in a dense area. With ~1,000 new apartments in the pipeline this area will only be improving, too, in the coming years. I like the West Side Market in Cleveland---a lot. With that being said I haven't really had the pleasure of strolling W. 25th St. to make a valid comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant
Halle Berry, Arsenio Hall, Nine-Inch Nails, and Paul Newman who grew up in Shaker Heights. Chrissy Hynde of the Pretenders came from Akron but hung around Cleveland so much that the Rock Hall considers her native to Cleveland anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisedRustbelt
We have the Erie Monsters AHL.
In regards to famous people, we have Molly Shannon, MGK, Kid Cudi, Superman, Halle Berry, Paul Newman, Bob Hope, Patricia Heaton, Tom Hanks (wasn't born, but got his start here in the Great Lakes Shakespeare Festival), Langston Hughes, and can't forget about Alan Freed who coined the term Rock n' Roll!
Born and raised in Cleveland, I call Pittsburgh home now; i'd love to weigh in on this topic. Yes, Cleveland Clinic is more renowned than UPMC, and your symphony and art museum are more highly regarded than ours. Cleveland's streets are arranged logically in a neat grid, while Pittsburgh's roads look like someone threw spaghetti from a plane and i sure do miss handy access to a large body of water you can't see across to the other side. That said, Pittsburgh has something ineffable--a stronger pulse, a deeper spirit, a stronger sense of place, a soul--that i never felt in Cleveland.
But to the OP's point about Pittsburghers being more hung up on comparisons with Cleveland than vice versa: sorry, i don't see it or hear it in my daily comings and goings. We're even 'meh' about the so-called Steelers-Browns 'rivalry' and now save our animus for the Ravens. (Maybe you do, too!)
In the two years I lived in Pittsburgh, I can't recall a single conversation about Cleveland unless the Browns were involved in the conversation. I hate to break it to you Clevelanders who imagine Pittsburghers sit around talking down Cleveland amongst themselves because they secretly want to be like you... but the truth is except when football is involved, the average Pittsburgher is no more inclined to give any more thought to Cleveland than to the shifting time signatures in "All You Need Is Love."
In the two years I lived in Pittsburgh, I can't recall a single conversation about Cleveland unless the Browns were involved in the conversation. I hate to break it to you Clevelanders who imagine Pittsburghers sit around talking down Cleveland amongst themselves because they secretly want to be like you... but the truth is except when football is involved, the average Pittsburgher is no more inclined to give any more thought to Cleveland than to the shifting time signatures in "All You Need Is Love."
The poster was citing the Cleveland bashing in the Pittsburgh forums and not day-to-day living in Pittsburgh listening to Cleveland bashing, as if it's an obsession in Pittsburgh.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) I'll take Cleveland any day. It's easier to navigate, and I'm not a huge fan of hills, which makes for a nightmare in the Winter time.
