Relocating to Cleveland area... need "heights" advice (Lakewood: houses, neighborhood)

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by NotAPinhead

Here is the best advice you are going to get: do not even consider buying in any of the communities on the East Side if your time frame is only 5 years (or longer). You will lose money on the house buy/sell and might even be stuck with a house worth less than your mortgage. Broker commission alone will cost you 5% not to mention other closing costs. All the Heights are in decline....just look at the values of the homes...most of which are worth less today than 10 years ago. It is so bad that Shaker Life Magazine (propaganda magazine put out by city) stopped publishing previous sale prices as they showed homes selling for less than even 10 AND 15 years ago! And that is in Shaker which is doing much better than Cleveland or University Heights.

Crime is rampant in Cleveland Heights and the housing market is in terminal decline. Don't be lured by the cheap prices...they are cheap because everyone wants OUT. With the second highest taxes behind Shaker and a terrible school district, why would you ever buy there? Just buy in Shaker if you must but I would say just rent. No need to buy and if you really like then you can buy later.

As to commute, driving from Lakewood at rush hour might be 45 minutes. That is a a GREAT commute in other parts of the country but maybe not Cleveland. I would recommend Rocky River over Lakewood. Again, rent first and then buy.

Good luck.

"Crime is rampant...and the housing market is in terminal decline"? Sorry, but that's hyperbole. The Heights suburbs are unique to Greater Cleveland and because of that they will always be desirable to those who aren't interested in cookie-cutter suburbia. Oh, and there's University Circle, which is right down the hill and absolutely booming. It's one of the largest and fastest growing centers of employment in Northeast Ohio, so while jobs and residents may be leaving Cuyahoga County in general, jobs will be plentiful in that part of the county--right next door to the Heights.

[wosmama]

Man, I really wish there were reasonable rental options for families here... we really don't want to get rid of our dogs as they are part of the family. And multifamily units aren't an option because our skittish boxers bark like they're german shepherds.

We are coming to town in two weeks. Any recommendations? We will be sans baby!!

[Clevelander17]

Schools/districts are only as "good" as the families using them. There are still quite a few families that send their kids to the CH-UH schools who are happy with the experience and whose children come out as graduates and go on to attend prestigious universities.

It would be quite an odd coincidence that almost all of the "worst" schools in this city/state/country "just happen" to be located in the poorest neighborhoods. Maybe there's another factor at play?

There are still a large amount of wealthy and highly-educated folks living in Cleveland Heights. Most of them do send their kids to private schools as opposed to Shaker Heights, where a higher percentage of their wealthy families still use the public schools. The CH-UH schools themselves (including the teachers and staff) are just fine, and even offer quite a few outstanding courses and programs. The irony is that if enough of these aforementioned wealthy CH families engaged en mass to return to the the public schools, the school "ratings" would increase, perception would increase, and property values would, you guessed it, increase. Sorry for the rant, but every time this discussion arises, it needs to be pointed out that the schools themselves are fine it's just that there are so many impoverished children using them. It doesn't have to be that way, though.

[NotAPinhead]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

"Crime is rampant...and the housing market is in terminal decline"? Sorry, but that's hyperbole. The Heights suburbs are unique to Greater Cleveland and because of that they will always be desirable to those who aren't interested in cookie-cutter suburbia. Oh, and there's University Circle, which is right down the hill and absolutely booming. It's one of the largest and fastest growing centers of employment in Northeast Ohio, so while jobs and residents may be leaving Cuyahoga County in general, jobs will be plentiful in that part of the county--right next door to the Heights.

Sorry...but you are wrong to call it hyperbole. Look at Cleveland Heights for example...the stunning uptick in crime there is frightening. Two women were mugged at gunpoint leaving restaurant on Lee Rd. Constant armed robbery of people, banks, etc. And latest scandal shows how Cleveland Heights Police constantly under-reported crime (rape) by labeling it something else. As to whether the decline is terminal time will tell but the collapse of the housing market is a very good sign that the city is sinking fast.

As to the "desirability" of the Heights, well that has always been the case based on the formerly very attractive housing. But that still has not stopped the decline of the area, even in Shaker Heights. More section 8 and poverty leaving Cleveland and going to the Heights. Just look at the schools: Cleveland Heights is among the worst in the state and Shaker Heights has a continuing increase in subsidized lunch students, which we all know correlate highly with poor school performance. Can a kid get a decent education in either district? Of course, but most parents have and will continue to choose other districts. And let's not forget the insane taxes to fund the schools which just do not perform according to the amount of money being spent.

As to University Circle, it is growing as hospital behemoths continue to suck up every local dollar into their monopolies. But no one needs to live in the Heights to be close when there is ZERO traffic in Cleveland. Indeed, half hour commute in most of country would be a dream but that same commute in Cleveland is somehow long? And which would take you to a nice and safe suburb away from the crime of the declining inner ring suburbs?

To the OP, look around at rentals. You will find that the total cost will be LESS than if you buy when you factor in mortgage, taxes, insurance, closing costs and VERY importantly maintenance. Those old houses are certainly charming but you will be shocked at the amount of upkeep they require and the ridiculous housing inspections by the cities to FORCE you to make repairs which they deem necessary. Also, you will avoid a situation where you will be under water if housing values continue to decline. Look at zillow and see the housing sales history. You will see dozens of homes selling at a loss for the owners and that does not even show the money they invested to improve house.

Don't buy...rent. Again, you can always buy down the road once you live there and learn more.

[wosmama]

well sh*t. Now I just don't know what to do.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by NotAPinhead

Sorry...but you are wrong to call it hyperbole. Look at Cleveland Heights for example...the stunning uptick in crime there is frightening. Two women were mugged at gunpoint leaving restaurant on Lee Rd. Constant armed robbery of people, banks, etc. And latest scandal shows how Cleveland Heights Police constantly under-reported crime (rape) by labeling it something else. As to whether the decline is terminal time will tell but the collapse of the housing market is a very good sign that the city is sinking fast.

As to the "desirability" of the Heights, well that has always been the case based on the formerly very attractive housing. But that still has not stopped the decline of the area, even in Shaker Heights. More section 8 and poverty leaving Cleveland and going to the Heights. Just look at the schools: Cleveland Heights is among the worst in the state and Shaker Heights has a continuing increase in subsidized lunch students, which we all know correlate highly with poor school performance. Can a kid get a decent education in either district? Of course, but most parents have and will continue to choose other districts. And let's not forget the insane taxes to fund the schools which just do not perform according to the amount of money being spent.

As to University Circle, it is growing as hospital behemoths continue to suck up every local dollar into their monopolies. But no one needs to live in the Heights to be close when there is ZERO traffic in Cleveland. Indeed, half hour commute in most of country would be a dream but that same commute in Cleveland is somehow long? And which would take you to a nice and safe suburb away from the crime of the declining inner ring suburbs?

Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights are both large and consist of numerous different neighborhoods. To speak of this "decline" as if it's happening across the board is ridiculous. The housing is still very attractive; it's unique to Greater Cleveland and it's stood the test of time. The OP is not considering any of the areas of CH that are most vulnerable to significant further decline, so why the scare tactics?

In regards to the schools, once again, the students are the ones who own this "performance," not the districts themselves. Individual students from stable backgrounds still do just fine because the districts still have extensive opportunities for them. That's why this "performance" that you keep citing is irrelevant.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

There is a reason property taxes are so high.

It's partly because of the huge disadvantage that older bedroom communities like CH-UH and SH are placed at considering the state's unconstitutional funding system.

[maxmodder]

As already stated for obvious reasons, the best advice (if you must relocate to Cleveland) is to rent first.

[wosmama]

Honestly? Just want my kid to be safe round the clock. Not leave-your-doors-unlocked-at-night safe, necessarily (my parents don't even know where to find their house keys where they live), but where my car windows won't get bashed in and i can walk to the park without fear.

Not to be cold, but I don't care where the city will be in 10 years. I care where it will be in 4 or 5, when my kid will be starting kindergarten.

I've heard stay S of Cedar in CH, S of Meadowbrook in UH and E of Lee in SH. Does that seem right?

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by wosmama

Honestly? Just want my kid to be safe round the clock. Not leave-your-doors-unlocked-at-night safe, necessarily (my parents don't even know where to find their house keys where they live), but where my car windows won't get bashed in and i can walk to the park without fear.

Not to be cold, but I don't care where the city will be in 10 years. I care where it will be in 4 or 5, when my kid will be starting kindergarten.

I've heard stay S of Cedar in CH, S of Meadowbrook in UH and E of Lee in SH. Does that seem right?

If you want to leave your doors at night, you might have to move to the country. Honestly, I wouldn't be comfortable leaving my doors unlocked in any urban area, anywhere. But you won't have to worry about car break-ins, or any other type of theft in most parts of Shaker, and there will be no problem at all walking to the park without fear. In SH, the only neighborhood you really would do well to avoid is the pocket that is West of Lee AND South of Van Aken, (Ludlow) as there is no real barrier there to one of the roughest neighborhoods in the city. However, just across the tracks of Van Aken, Onaway (also West of Lee, but North of Van Aken) is one of the nicest upper-middle class neighborhoods in the city. For CH, there are some decent areas North of Cedar, especially around Coventry, but in general, I would say that's sadly correct.