United dehubbing (Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo: costs, bus, assessment)

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I agree it sounds a bit high even with the city sitting centrally very near the border to SC.. I think its advantage has more to do with a slightly larger geography. It sits in one of the larger trading areas (larger than Atlanta's).

we know your 7 mil is wrong and pulled out of thin air. now your blowing smoke about a larger geography/trading area? I call bull. lets see some facts.

[Clevelander17]

Any place can be chosen to be a hub if that's what an airline prefers. Hubs are just places where people pass through getting from one place to the next. Due to infrastructure airlines seem to chose places that tend to already have a lot of traffic and are located in larger markets, but neither of these factors are requirements for any type of hub to exist.

The Charlotte Defender may rest easy knowing that the hub status of his favorite city is safe for now, but there's nothing inherently so superior about CLT's position or the city of Charlotte that will protect it in the long-term, particularly as airline consolidation continues unabated.

[JoeP]

we know your 7 mil is wrong and pulled out of thin air. now your blowing smoke about a larger geography/trading area? I call bull. lets see some facts.

What is wrong with you??

Look up within a 100 miles of Charlotte. Jesus. I'm just having a conversation and refer to things I've read in the past - what is wrong with you?

The Charlotte Defender may rest easy knowing that the hub status of his favorite city is safe for now, but there's nothing inherently so superior about CLT's position or the city of Charlotte that will protect it in the long-term, particularly as airline consolidation continues unabated.

So I must ask, what is wrong with you as well. I'm just discussing items brought up. Why does my noting reasons for Charlotte's hub make me a "defender?"

I can see why this thread was almost closed. People can't have rational, mature discussion.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by JoeP

So I must ask, what is wrong with you as well. I'm just discussing items brought up. Why does my noting reasons for Charlotte's hub make me a "defender?"

I can see why this thread was almost closed. People can't have rational, mature discussion.

You're not the Charlotte Defender, I apologize for the confusion. I think that those who post here regularly enough know to whom I was referring.

[jam1919]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

we know your 7 mil is wrong and pulled out of thin air. now your blowing smoke about a larger geography/trading area? I call bull. lets see some facts.

The Charlotte Metropolitan Statistical Area doesn't have 7 million, but there is about 7 million people in a 100 miles radius.

Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisburg, NC-SC CSA 2.5 million
Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point, NC CSA 1.6 million (75 miles from Charlotte-Douglas)
Hickory-Lenoir-Morganstown, NC MSA 365K (60 miles from Charlotte-Douglas)
Greenville-Spartanburg, SC CSA 1.4 million (90 miles from Charlotte-Douglas vs. 155 miles to Atlanta Int.)
Columbia-Newbury, SC CSA 900K (90 miles to Charlotte-Douglas vs. 225 to Atlanta Int.)

That is 8.165 million people within 100 miles of Charlotte-Douglas. Air service is limited at the airports in the smaller MSAs near Charlotte due to the large hub offering non-stop service (better to drive an extra 45 minutes for a non-stop than have a two hour connection).
This partially explains why Charlotte has more local passengers than Cleveland, despite being the smaller city.

Cleveland will be fine. Not having a big hub definetely hurts for business, but there are plenty of cities that do just fine and are not large hubs: Austin, TX, Portland, OR, Orlando, FL, Tampa, FL, etc... all doing fine without being a huge hub.

[SquareBetterThanAll]

Amusing this has gone from a discussion about Cleveland's dehubbing to the merits of many hubs in the Eastern US.

[Urban Peasant]

Let's all move on. I never agree to depend on one industry or one company and no one airline should ever dominate an airport. It's best if Hopkins Int'l takes an opportunity to diversify the airlines that serve it. Hopefully other airlines fill in the space vacated by United. Increased competition helps an economy, not a monopoly.

Funny that Boston is listed in the list of airline hubs and yet I never consider The Hub as really an airline hub at all. I go to Logan Intl and find a multitude of different airlines all competing each other. All right I believe that Delta has a huge stake but I couldn't care as long as their are other airlines flying to the same destinations.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jam1919

That is 8.165 million people within 100 miles of Charlotte-Douglas. Air service is limited at the airports in the smaller MSAs near Charlotte due to the large hub offering non-stop service (better to drive an extra 45 minutes for a non-stop than have a two hour connection).
This partially explains why Charlotte has more local passengers than Cleveland, despite being the smaller city.

So, by this logic, a Cleveland hub could include Erie, Pittsburgh, Toledo, Columbus, Mansfield, etc. and just assume that they would rather drive an extra hour or so regardless of the fact that each smaller metro has their own airport. Sorry, but that's not quite how it works. If it did, CLE could claim 10+ million people.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

Let's all move on. I never agree to depend on one industry or one company and no one airline should ever dominate an airport. It's best if Hopkins Int'l takes an opportunity to diversify the airlines that serve it. Hopefully other airlines fill in the space vacated by United. Increased competition helps an economy, not a monopoly.

I agree, but invalid stats simply need to be refuted. CLT is a location that just became a whole lot less strategic with the AA/USAir merger. Maybe they will win out over DC and Miami. Then again, maybe not. The bottom line is that they will consolidate.

Funny that Boston is listed in the list of airline hubs and yet I never consider The Hub as really an airline hub at all. I go to Logan Intl and find a multitude of different airlines all competing each other. All right I believe that Delta has a huge stake but I couldn't care as long as their are other airlines flying to the same destinations.

Boston-Logan isn't technically a hub, but it is a focus city for a few major airlines. I'm pretty sure that Jet Blue is the largest actual passenger carrier there.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by JoeP

7 million isn't significant and is less significant to 4.5 million because of density?

The point is that the density is much higher and 100 mi. is a long distance to drive when you have an airport in your back yard.

100 mile radius = 31,416 sq. mi.

The state of Ohio has 44,825 sq. mi., 11+ million people, and is served by at least 6 major commercial airports. Assuming 7 million is also assuming that almost everyone who flies and lives in Raleigh-Durhum, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Fayetteville, Greenville, Columbia, etc. drives to Charlotte to board an airplane. Well, they simply don't unless there is some astronomical savings (which there isn't). The same way that most people from Columbus, Toledo, or Erie don't drive to Cleveland to fly.

Density doesn't matter for such a difference. And yes if go South of Charlotte, you get closer to Atlanta, but Charlotte isn't a Delta hub, so that's irrelevant.

So what? Does that automatically disqualify ATL as a viable aternative airport to drive to (as if more than 5% even would anyway)?