What can we do about Buckeye? (Cleveland, Cincinnati: 2015, homes, neighborhoods)

[Cleverfield]

I don't know man, my business was looking at a building with 3 apartments, and two storefronts on Buckeye. One day, all the hot water tanks, wiring, and furnaces were there. The next, someone had smashed through a glass block window and taken ALL of it. When someone can smash through a glass block window and take all that stuff without anyone calling the police, that to me is a sign of a Really bad neighborhood. There is almost nowhere in Cleveland that I feel less safe in than Buckeye, and I go all over the city for my job. Nowhere else in Cleveland have I witnessed someone resisting arrest to the point that the officer was near shooting. Ever drive down Buckeye at night when the businesses have closed? They all have heavy metal shutters over all their windows and doors. Crime is out of control there, even if you might not have directly seen it. I'm hopeful that things can turn around, but I just don't see the way out. Police would either have to step way up over there, or something in the neighborhood would have to change internally.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

I don't know man, my business was looking at a building with 3 apartments, and two storefronts on Buckeye. One day, all the hot water tanks, wiring, and furnaces were there. The next, someone had smashed through a glass block window and taken ALL of it. When someone can smash through a glass block window and take all that stuff without anyone calling the police, that to me is a sign of a Really bad neighborhood. There is almost nowhere in Cleveland that I feel less safe in than Buckeye, and I go all over the city for my job. Nowhere else in Cleveland have I witnessed someone resisting arrest to the point that the officer was near shooting. Ever drive down Buckeye at night when the businesses have closed? They all have heavy metal shutters over all their windows and doors. Crime is out of control there, even if you might not have directly seen it. I'm hopeful that things can turn around, but I just don't see the way out. Police would either have to step way up over there, or something in the neighborhood would have to change internally.

Should the police just arrest everybody? Cops can't change anything. This begins with citizens.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Should the police just arrest everybody? Cops can't change anything. This begins with citizens.

I agree that it must begin with the citizens, but how do you expect good citizens to move in or stay there when it's such a hot-bed of crime? Crime begets more crime. Deterioration begets more deterioration. You're not just going to change a group of people who've spent their whole lives living on the path of criminal activity.

[citydudeallover]

From the day this first posted I so resisted on commenting , as my mind raced to all the great childhood memories in and around Buckeye/ Shaker and Woodland Avenue and the sad good-bye in 1980 when the family moved west Glad to see they have a Redbarn (Broadview Road )


I could write a book just on the number of times the city tried to halt the
decline with streetscaping Buckeye Rd. let alone the block watch program , the mini police station on Buckeye .
For me it was a great walking neighborhood a place that truly showcased Cleveland as a great American City .

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

I agree that it must begin with the citizens, but how do you expect good citizens to move in or stay there when it's such a hot-bed of crime? Crime begets more crime. Deterioration begets more deterioration. You're not just going to change a group of people who've spent their whole lives living on the path of criminal activity.

You don't change anyone. People have to change themselves. What I'm saying is there is no easy solution. Imposing something on people won't change anything. Buckeye will likely continue to decline minus that kind of change from within. but hey, it's happened before. When I was a kid, I'd never have gone to Ohio City for any reason and look at it now.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

You don't change anyone. People have to change themselves. What I'm saying is there is no easy solution. Imposing something on people won't change anything. Buckeye will likely continue to decline minus that kind of change from within. but hey, it's happened before. When I was a kid, I'd never have gone to Ohio City for any reason and look at it now.

UC, Little Italy, North Collinwood are all neighborhoods that could have easily been enveloped by the decay that surrounds them. What sets those neighborhoods apart, however, is their tough on crime stance. If Buckeye were the same way, we might start to see some changes. This would especially be in Shaker Heights' interests because of the bordering Ludlow Neighborhood that is seeing spillover crime, and starting down the path to decay as well.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

UC, Little Italy, North Collinwood are all neighborhoods that could have easily been enveloped by the decay that surrounds them. What sets those neighborhoods apart, however, is their tough on crime stance. If Buckeye were the same way, we might start to see some changes. This would especially be in Shaker Heights' interests because of the bordering Ludlow Neighborhood that is seeing spillover crime, and starting down the path to decay as well.

I think that is highly highly highly debatable. I'd disagree with Little Italy though. It never saw real decay. These neighborhoods had assets. The WSM was vital for Ohio City. North Collinwood had some brave people that started the music scene there. UC has the art museum, orchestra, CIA, CIM, countless other assets. Police work is really secondary. What? You think in 1992, the police decided to get "tough on crime" in the fantastical hope that some day people would want to live there again? No, stepping up police activity is a result of new residents moving in already, who don't accept crime as a part of life.

I hate to say it, but the future of our neighborhoods depends on new people replacing the "old" people, or people who grew up in these neighborhoods to move back. We need new attitudes and perspectives in places like Buckeye. One big asset Buckeye has is public transit connection to downtown. It's not walking distance to downtown like Ohio City is, but you can be there in 20 minutes. This is one reason why there could be hope. But it really can't begin until it empties out. This is why I'm optimistic about places like Slavic Village, more so than Buckeye. SV already emptied out. Only direction is up, and actually exciting things have been happening there, definitely way more exciting than Buckeye. I've even started looking into buying a home there.

[Cleverfield]

You really don't know what you're talking about. What Slavic village emptied out of were quality residents who took good care of their properties and were hit hard by predatory lending and the downturn in the economy. It is in no way better off or in a better position due to it emptying out. North Collinwood was the safest neighborhood on the East Side even before the music scene. Why? Because Mike Polensek is one of the toughest on crime council people there is. UCPD and Cleveland Clinic PD were created so students and workers would feel comfortable there. Why is it such a stretch to say that a similar thing needs to happen in the Buckeye area? If they could get some of the pimps and drug dealers off the streets, maybe decent residents and business would actually consider locating there.

[YaFace]

Dudes the poor and welfare moms have to live somewhere. Until we get a substantial, non-skilled, well paying job base for these people, it is all a shell game. We are better off giving free bus tickets and moving vans to Florida than trying to paint a turd. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. Good neighborhoods get bad, then good again, but these roving pack of poor will continue to trouble the area until we get real, off the wall solutions.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

You really don't know what you're talking about. What Slavic village emptied out of were quality residents who took good care of their properties and were hit hard by predatory lending and the downturn in the economy. It is in no way better off or in a better position due to it emptying out. North Collinwood was the safest neighborhood on the East Side even before the music scene. Why? Because Mike Polensek is one of the toughest on crime council people there is. UCPD and Cleveland Clinic PD were created so students and workers would feel comfortable there. Why is it such a stretch to say that a similar thing needs to happen in the Buckeye area? If they could get some of the pimps and drug dealers off the streets, maybe decent residents and business would actually consider locating there.

Sooooo.... Slavic Village lost quality residents.... and Buckeye didn't? You don't make much sense for someone who "knows what he's talking about." All neighborhoods lost "quality" residents. I don't know what your point is here. Once the people with money left, it fell into disrepair. I like the position SV is in because the decline is ending. Also, have you ever been to Slavic Village by St. Stan's? There are still plenty of old time residents that never left. Someone needs to learn a bit more about what they're spouting here....

ANd you're proving my point already. UC has students. Case, the art museum, etc all have reason to make sure the area is safe. Because of its residents. Who already live there. Cleveland did not just randomly decide to start policing empty pieces of land. The Cleveland Clinic did. University Circle did. Because they have a vested interest in the area. You can't just solve problems with more police. that can be part of the answer, but that's addressing the symptoms, not the root.

I don't knwo why this is so hard to understand.

Arrest a pimp, wait a week, another pimp will take his place. That's how it works in these kinds of areas. Arrest a drug dealer, wait a week, another drug dealer takes his place. As long as these illicit activities are profitable, they won't disappear. Hire all the police you want. Cops and prison guards can't even stop this stuff from happening IN PRISONS.

Come on, Cindy Barber has more to do with North Collinwood's success than Polensek. Other people out on the streets living civily makes me infinitely more comfortable than seeing a cop car on every corner. I'd prefer not to live in a constantly surveyed area- it just tells me that it needs surveying and my feeling of safety is probably more of an illusion.

You ask about "what we should do about Buckeye?" and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. If you don't want other people's answers, don't ask for them.