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Old 04-20-2014, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,046 posts, read 12,318,439 times
Reputation: 10365

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The level of idiocy in this thread is too much.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,412 posts, read 5,085,327 times
Reputation: 3081
He keeps saying building skyscrapers will attract people. It doesn't work that way. Buildings don't create their own demand. The demand has to exist already, only then will a developer be willing to spend the hundreds of millions of dollars to build a skyscraper.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
493 posts, read 635,999 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
He keeps saying building skyscrapers will attract people. It doesn't work that way. Buildings don't create their own demand. The demand has to exist already, only then will a developer be willing to spend the hundreds of millions of dollars to build a skyscraper.
Why are you not understanding? There is a demand! There is a lack of apartments downtown! Whenever an apartment building is proposed, the rent list gets filled the same day it is started! These apartments are for younger people working downtown and they are in so much of a demand, office buildings are being turned into apartments!

Will skyscrapers automatically bring people to Cleveland? No. Will skyscrapers make for a more attractive downtown? Yes! It will bring more Clevelanders to visit downtown, it will make more housing, businesses, and more apartments! Cleveland's skyline is decent, but not the best! The skyline can easily be made a lot better with new buildings! But I do not want buildings to be built if it won't be profitable. Right now, downtown is doing very well and probably better than I can remember. Right now is the best time to build because of how well downtown is doing, how many people are moving downtown, how many jobs are needed and how easily it can attract tourists!
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,412 posts, read 5,085,327 times
Reputation: 3081
You can say this all you want, but unless you have the capital to build something, it doesn't matter. Developers will do what they think will be the most profitable, and what they are able to finance, no matter if people think a skyscraper would be a cool thing to have downtown. This conversation is pointless.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,046 posts, read 12,318,439 times
Reputation: 10365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
You can say this all you want, but unless you have the capital to build something, it doesn't matter. Developers will do what they think will be the most profitable, and what they are able to finance, no matter if people think a skyscraper would be a cool thing to have downtown. This conversation is pointless.
And I am not dumber for having participated at all.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
1,522 posts, read 2,987,375 times
Reputation: 1152
Quote:
Originally Posted by reretarff View Post
Why are you not understanding? There is a demand! There is a lack of apartments downtown! Whenever an apartment building is proposed, the rent list gets filled the same day it is started! These apartments are for younger people working downtown and they are in so much of a demand, office buildings are being turned into apartments!

Will skyscrapers automatically bring people to Cleveland? No. Will skyscrapers make for a more attractive downtown? Yes! It will bring more Clevelanders to visit downtown, it will make more housing, businesses, and more apartments! Cleveland's skyline is decent, but not the best! The skyline can easily be made a lot better with new buildings! But I do not want buildings to be built if it won't be profitable. Right now, downtown is doing very well and probably better than I can remember. Right now is the best time to build because of how well downtown is doing, how many people are moving downtown, how many jobs are needed and how easily it can attract tourists!
There isn't a huge demand outside of what is being built/renovated. There is still excess space Downtown. I assure you, much like the Flats East Bank project, if there is a demand someone will step in to fill the void. Look at what caused the building of our larger buildings in the past? It's almost always demand from commercial tenants, and for notable buildings, large ones at that. No large corporations are moving in from out of town and no large corporations are moving in from the suburbs. The growth Downtown has had has been in the response to the demand that has been there, which apparently has not called for any large vanity projects.

Quite frankly, I'm pleased with what has been done so far. It could be so, so much worse, particularly given our region's penchant for poorly conceived suburban projects. At least at this point developers are helping to get some of the mothballed old buildings back into the market instead of being demolished. When we clear that inventory out then I would be more concerned with new building.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:29 AM
 
63 posts, read 82,775 times
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I understand reretarffs feelings as far as wanting a more attractive and impressive skyline...but you have to be practical first.Clevelands skyline may be somewhat lacking;but that's relative and subjective.Clevelands skyline may not be impressive compared to some cities,but it has a whole lot of cities beat...again,subjective!Some cases in point: Memphis,Phoenix,San Antonio,St.Louis,Baltimore,DC...just to name a few.Some cities don't need impressive skylines to be an impressive city.Believe me,Cleveland isn't that bad!
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
1,522 posts, read 2,987,375 times
Reputation: 1152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butchie Boy View Post
I understand reretarffs feelings as far as wanting a more attractive and impressive skyline...but you have to be practical first.Clevelands skyline may be somewhat lacking;but that's relative and subjective.Clevelands skyline may not be impressive compared to some cities,but it has a whole lot of cities beat...again,subjective!Some cases in point: Memphis,Phoenix,San Antonio,St.Louis,Baltimore,DC...just to name a few.Some cities don't need impressive skylines to be an impressive city.Believe me,Cleveland isn't that bad!
That's a good point to make, thank you

As an aside, DC is a good example of a city with different pressures keeping it from having a substantial skyline. I believe they have zoning restrictions that prevent skyscrapers from being built within the city.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:25 PM
 
63 posts, read 82,775 times
Reputation: 54
I'm glad you see my point SquareBetterThanAll,a lot of Clevelanders just can't see it.And because of the point you made about DC,it has a logical explanation for not having a skyline...so when it comes to skyline bragging rights;it can be excluded.To make up for the lack of a skyline it has many urban neighborhoods that trump many other cities that have those big impressive skylines but their neighborhoods are weak!DC don't need a skyline! I 'd much rather have a city with vibrant,unique walkable neighborhoods and a weak skyline than the other way around...and some cities are fortunate enough to have both!Perception is everything and I've witnessed that first hand as a cab driver in Cleveland for sixteen years.I had a guy in my cab from Houston and he thought downtown Cleveland was a joke...he kept exclaiming "This is downtown".On the other hand,I had a lady fare from Milwaukee who thought Cleveland was too big and bustling for her,"With all these people and skyscrapers".And I've had everything in between! It all depends on what you are used to and what you have heard that helps shape your perception.As far as Cleveland is concerned,a lot of people rag on Cleveland because they know it's popular and vogue,what with all the Hollywood comedy writers and late night talk shows...and most of these people never set foot in Cleveland!!Now getting back to that skyline thing;sure,Clevelands skyline could be a bit denser with a half dozen or so extra buildings to plug a few obvious holes but it is a substantial skyline.I've been to quite a few cities that only have a TRYline...get my drift!
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
493 posts, read 635,999 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquareBetterThanAll View Post
That's a good point to make, thank you

As an aside, DC is a good example of a city with different pressures keeping it from having a substantial skyline. I believe they have zoning restrictions that prevent skyscrapers from being built within the city.
DC is the capitol of the United States. If Cleveland was the capitol then we wouldn't need one building over 10 floors to be successful.
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