Is The West Side Doing Better Than The East Side? (Cleveland: house, neighborhoods)

[Clevelander216]

Originally Posted by deskjockey

I am probably going to be shredded for this post. Doesn't society need a neighborhood for poor people to live, hence the east side of Cleveland? If so, does society truly feels the need to improve these neighborhoods?

There should absolutely be neighborhoods for the lower income folks! But that doesn't mean they have to be run down and crime ridden like most of them are currently. Not everybody has cushy jobs and can afford a nice house in the burbs, so the cheap rentals in the inner city are the only choice.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by armstrong

Couldn't agree more! Very good post. I sure do hope one of the east side neighborhoods make an effort to shape up a bit. Sure University Circle has been making huge strides, but it seems like it is only geared toward Case and the hospitals. It's looking like North Collinwood could be that kind of place right now. Hoping that Slavic Village can do it too.

I sill say Shaker Square is underrated and off the radar compared to these other spots. It can and should be so much more than it is.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I sill say Shaker Square is underrated and off the radar compared to these other spots. It can and should be so much more than it is.

I think its proximity to Buckeye holds it back. Larchmere just to the North though is looking nice. That's another up and coming East Side area people often forget about.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

If CSU over on E. 25 doesn't count as east side and is "downtown" than W.25 is also downtown.

Bro, there's a river. There's east of that river, and west. CSU is not "downtown."

CSU literally borders downtown. The CSU Campus was built on top of where downtown buildings once stood. You can research it if you would like. The CSU campus is on the other side of E.17th Street of the skyscrapers. And according to Google Maps, Downtown is from I-90 To the River. CSU is downtown. Downtown is not the east side. It's on the east side of the river, but it's considered a border for the east and west sides. Nobody who lives downtown says they live on the east side. It's neutral.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by SmittyXCWRU

Within the city limits, almost undeniably. Clark-Fulton would be one of the nicer neighborhoods on the East Side. The West Side doesn't have the completely devastated areas the East Side has like Kinsman and Central. But the West Side also doesn't have the once-nice old money historical areas either and generally less ornate housing. Unfortunately most of the non-trendy West Side neighborhoods are slowly decaying and are on the trajectory of looking like the East Side in 30 years. But the East Side looks like that TODAY.

Once. Like 100 years ago. Then it went down hill. The east side is actually the oldest area of Cleveland, so I'm not surprised the early 1900's millionaires lived there. Remember, the 2 major reasons the east side is in such bad shape is 1. WWII and 2. Racial Inequality.

Because of the war, there was a lot of poverty and not a lot of money, so people started to move further outward away from the city. It sounds weird but that was a common trend, especially in the Jewish neighborhoods. My wife's father grew up in Glenville back in the 1940's when it was all Jewish. When Jewish people started to move east, Synagogues and Congregations started to move along with them, causing all the Jewish people in Glenville to move with them. My wife's father lived in Glenville, but then his family moved to Warrensville Center Road where new houses were being built and new synagogues were being built. A short time later for a different reason, they moved to Beachwood. This is what caused Beachwood, Cleveland Heights and University Heights to become majorly Jewish, like they are today.

Because of Racial Inequality, The African American Migration caused paranoid white families to quickly move east and sell their houses for cheap to African American families. This chain reaction eventually turned a whole neighborhood African American in a matter of 5 years or less years. At first, these neighborhoods were very good with Southern Families who took pride in owning a house. But the next generation of African Americans didn't take care of their houses or took pride in their neighborhood, causing abandoned and rotting houses. Unfortunately, African American neighborhoods are usually the worst neighborhoods (Also due to White Flight.) Because of this, the neighborhoods weren't well taken care of, more crime and gangs were forming, drugs were being made and eventually turned the neighborhoods into what they are now.

Anyways, because African Americans didn't settle in on the west side, the west side was never turned into such a bad neighborhood. If African Americans settled in on the west side, then the east side would be the best area in Cleveland and the west side would be in bad shape.

Please keep in mind that I am not a racist and this was all the fault of the paranoid selfish white families in the 1940's and 1950's. If the African American Migration happened after the civil rights act, then there would not be as much racism and there would not be unsafe neighborhoods, ghettos or crime.

By the way, Clark Fulton is on the West side. No wonder it's in such good shape.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

You live in an area that was almost certainly wilderness just a few decades ago. This region's population level has been stagnate for about half a century. I won't begrudge you for your choice to live in Solon based on your perceptions of its supposed advantages, but I also don't think we need to be entertaining this barrage of questions about why certain neighborhoods in Cleveland that were thriving back when Solon was a one stoplight township are now struggling.

White Flight.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by averysgore

Very good post. I agree with everything, though of course it's Severance Hall, not Several. Which I do like a lot, but you're right that most younger people prefer a good local band in a brewpub.

Compared to when I lived there, '99-04, the west side has a hell of a lot more than it used to. Us Case students really wouldn't go west much at all, just to the WSM or to Edgewater once in a while. Tremont was just a few galleries and a handful of restaurants back then. And Gordon Square, looking at the newly updated Google Street View, looks completely different from how I remember it. I know that some parts of the west side like Madison Ave are doing horribly, but then West Park still seems to be doing just fine.

The east side, on the other hand, seems to have gotten worse. Cleveland Heights apparently has more crime than it used to, more sections to avoid, and same with other suburbs like South Euclid. Neighborhoods like Slavic Village have gone to crap. The whole stretch from downtown to University Circle looks way better though. The Healthline is a massive improvement over the old 6 bus, and I sure feel safer taking it.

Cleveland Heights and South Euclid don't have too much more crime than they did 20 years ago. They are still very Jewish neighborhoods that actually are starting to get a thriving restaurant and nightlife area.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by deskjockey

I am probably going to be shredded for this post. Doesn't society need a neighborhood for poor people to live, hence the east side of Cleveland? If so, does society truly feels the need to improve these neighborhoods?

Either they can improve them with slow results, or just let the decay and welfare spread out further like a disease.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Interesting that a racist neighborhood like Little Italy is touted as one of Cleveland's jewels. Do you think this is the reason the area remained intact when most of the east side went up in flames?

Most Italian neighborhoods were and are like this. My wife's dad grew up in Glenville in an area with a lot of Italians. During WWII when he was 10-13 years old, he would get beat up by Italians because he was Jewish. Because of that, his family moved all the way to Beachwood. This is what made Beachwood Jewish today.

When my parents moved into Mayfield Heights back in the 1980's, about 4 or 5 different neighbors came over and checked to make sure that they were white. Mayfield is very Italian now, but about 30 years ago it was almost 100% Italian.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by deskjockey

How many see this, know this, feel this but yet its not talked about?

It's true and my family and I have seen it happen.

During WWII, my wife's dad grew up in Glenville on a block with a lot of Italians. Before, during and after school a gang of Italians would bully him and beat him up just for being Jewish. Because of this, his family moved to Beachwood. Prejudice to African Americans and Jews in the 1940's and 1950's is a large factor to the bad neighborhoods today. (The place might as well have been the KKK)


In the 1980's, my parents moved into Mayfield Heights. In their first week in their new house, over 5 neighbors came over to make sure that my parent's were white.

In York, an Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn that I forgot the name of is very restrictive and only has Italian families living there.

The point is, Italian neighborhoods can be very restrictive and Italian neighborhoods such as Little Italy can be very prejudice.