Cleveland: the "mini-Chicago" (Cincinnati, Sandusky: unemployment, living in, cost of)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by steeps

Kamms ...you seem to have a chip on your shoulder when Chicago is defended or complemented? I surely do not know why? Are you a local disenfranchised about the city? Or left for another location and blame and accuse now...its their fault and not want to acknowledge what positives other list?

From all your post in Ohio and Cleveland threads? I'd say you are in Cleveland now? But your comments demeaning Chicago is what I'm not sure of Why?? Apparently you feel it is a defensive move on Cleveland's behalf?

As for my comment on CHICAGO has aww and wow??? For tourist it does, even me who merely lived there years ago, but visit yearly and can note its transformation? Also what it already had then in the Northwest side of the city I lived and ready for its Downtown to become what it was destined to be.

As for your visit to Chicago tomorrow? I envy it. Hope your profits to make, have virtue?
Also look up and out? You will see something to " aww and wow" at.... and down.... how clean the sidewalks and streets are.

I am NOT A HOMER CHICAGOAN. But the few years I lived there had me gain a affection and connection as a second hometown of sorts.

I remember when Chicagoans were less the proud of their downtown? After the decline of the 60s. But TODAY EXTREEMLY PROUD and perhaps BOOSTFUL. Same perhaps for most in Cleveland?

ALSO I AGREE CLEVELAND IN NO WAY NEEDS TO BE SEEN AS A MINI- CHICAGO??
JUST AS CHICAGO DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SEEN AS A MINI- NYC?
But I still see it as a complement for CHICAGO'S arrival??? If it is by some, seen as a mini- NYC.
I also agree it is Milwaukee is CHICAGO'S mini-me to Chicago.

With all due respect, I can't take your response seriously with all those krazy ?-marks.

I lived in Chicago for many years, I am entitled to my opinion; you or anyone else do not need to agree, which is fine. The fact that posters have to mention a chip on my shoulder because I criticize Chicago speaks volumes or that I'm defending Cleveland. Same thing came up in the forum about a high-speed bullet train from Cinci-Chicago; I think it's a waste of money. Of course, I'm eventually called for a having a chip on my shoulder about Cinci and somehow Cleveland got worked into it.

Whatever...

[ForYourLungsOnly]

Originally Posted by TheMahValley

Why should Cleveland be called a smaller Chicago? I would take offense to that. Cleveland is Cleveland with plenty of internationally recognized institutions from hospitals, fortune 500 companies, and cultural icons. Not only is Cleveland going through a building boom, but it is strengthening its institutions. I took a few classes at DePaul's urban sustainable development program and Chicago is a city of immense problems. It rivaled Detroit on a lot of issues. You have to realize Chicago is a big city (in area) and outside of the loop there are times when you would feel better off in Gary. Financially, Chicago (and the entire state of Illinois) is one big mess with some of the worst credit ratings and highest unemployment rates in the country.

Please use facts if you want to even attempt bogus arguments. The unemployment rates for Cleveland AND Chicago as of September 2014 are 6.1%. Get a grip. Please tell me how Cleveland's downtown is "booming" compared to Chicago. You clearly have no pulse on the current state of Chicago and are one of those "regurgitate what I heard on a news segment 9 months ago" people. I don't have time to sit here and list to you all of the development going on in Chicago right now, but feel free to search for yourself. I really don't care if people want to call Cleveland a mini-Chicago. I really don't see it, but whatever. I have nothing against Cleveland, btw, and only wish the city the best. A stronger fellow Midwestern city is only good for the region and nation as a whole. I guess a gesture of well-being to more than one city is too complex for many city-data members to comprehend.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly

Please use facts if you want to even attempt bogus arguments. The unemployment rates for Cleveland AND Chicago as of September 2014 are 6.1%. Get a grip. Please tell me how Cleveland's downtown is "booming" compared to Chicago. You clearly have no pulse on the current state of Chicago and are one of those "regurgitate what I heard on a news segment 9 months ago" people. I don't have time to sit here and list to you all of the development going on in Chicago right now, but feel free to search for yourself. I really don't care if people want to call Cleveland a mini-Chicago. I really don't see it, but whatever. I have nothing against Cleveland, btw, and only wish the city the best. A stronger fellow Midwestern city is only good for the region and nation as a whole. I guess a gesture of well-being to more than one city is too complex for many city-data members to comprehend.

It does rival, and even surpass Detroit in many bad categories. People see Chicago and they think glitz and glamour and skyscrapers and Wrigleyville and Magnificent Mile. It is all of that and more, but it's also a broken down Rust Belt city in a lot of ways, with a murder and a half per day. And neighborhoods rivalling Calcutta in poverty and misery.

[ForYourLungsOnly]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

It does rival, and even surpass Detroit in many bad categories. People see Chicago and they think glitz and glamour and skyscrapers and Wrigleyville and Magnificent Mile. It is all of that and more, but it's also a broken down Rust Belt city in a lot of ways, with a murder and a half per day. And neighborhoods rivalling Calcutta in poverty and misery.

Again, please give me hard facts. What is the murder rate per capita of Chicago compared to Cleveland? Can you tell me? Tell me how it "surpasses Detroit in many bad categories"; with facts please.

Chicago's Murder Rate Drops, Now Three Times Lower Than Detroit's: FBI - Chicago - DNAinfo.com Chicago

I am not denying that Chicago has it's problems. It certainly does, as does Cleveland. I just cannot take your argument, or anybody's for that matter, seriously without some facts.

[kpl1228]

This is not an urban geography class, and I don't have a paper due. You look em up! This is the site! We can talk generalizations here too, you know. Chicago had something like 450 murders last year. Pretty awful if you ask me.
General enough?
I do like Chicago BTW

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

This is not an urban geography class, and I don't have a paper due. You look em up! This is the site! We can talk generalizations here too, you know. Chicago had something like 450 murders last year. Pretty awful if you ask me.
General enough?
I do like Chicago BTW

I'm not a referee here, but it wouldn't seem too much to ask of someone who says, "[Chicago] does rival, and even surpass Detroit in many bad categories" to, you know, name a couple of those categories.

Don't need footnotes (or even links). Something better than "you look 'em up" (when you didn't give us any clue what to look up) would be nice, though.

Also, a tip: considering that FBI crime stats just came out showing Cleveland had a robbery rate in 2013 that was more than double Chicago's and actually more than 30 percent higher than Detroit's, I might avoid the topic of crime altogether if I were you.

[ForYourLungsOnly]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

This is not an urban geography class, and I don't have a paper due. You look em up! This is the site! We can talk generalizations here too, you know. Chicago had something like 450 murders last year. Pretty awful if you ask me.
General enough?
I do like Chicago BTW

Oh, it's fine. You don't HAVE to give me facts/answers. I just won't take your arguments seriously. I agree, any murder is awful, and Chicago has a gun violence problem. As does Cleveland, Philadelphia, DC, New York, New Orleans, LA, etc. Last year, Chicago placed around 21st in the murder rate category. BTW, Chicago's murder rate for last year was approximately 18.5/100,000. Cleveland's was 18.6. I like both cities, and hopefully crime will continue to drop in the following years (as it has been, for Chicago [and Cleveland too I think]).

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly

Last year, Chicago placed around 21st in the murder rate category. BTW, Chicago's murder rate for last year was approximately 18.5/100,000. Cleveland's was 18.6. I like both cities, and hopefully crime will continue to drop in the following years (as it has been, for Chicago [and Cleveland too I think]).

^This.

It pays to be mathematically literate, and actually understand what numbers mean.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by andrew61

^This.

It pays to be mathematically literate, and actually understand what numbers mean.

So there are NO generalizations here?
First of all, we're on a forum that has access to numerous numbers, data, demographic info, charts, etc etc.
Do I really need to go digging all that stuff out and drag it out? I can't simply make a comparative statement in general? Do I really need to break out the pie charts? This a forum that asks about the best hot dogs in Philadelphia, for crying out loud. You'll excuse me if I'm not whipping out specific categories and info. I think not. My statement is hardly ludicrous.
And I WAS having a good day. Good lord.
And I was not comparing Chicago to Cleveland in my last post. I brought up Detroit as a Rust Belt parallel. I simply walked into the middle of some petty Cleveland vs. Chicago squabble.
I also forgot...I'm the OP, BTW. In looking at this thread, how did my comparison of two Great Lakes cities morph into this craziness over all these weeks?
Kinda fun.

[WRnative]

Chicago from a fiscal standpoint, especially considering its unfunded pension liabilities, is much more similar to Detroit than to Cleveland. Cleveland uses state pension systems that, compared to those in Illinois, are well funded.

These pension liabilities will cause great pain in Chicago and Illinois at some point.

The cost of living in Cleveland also is fraction of that in Chicago.

Finally, an hour or two outside of Cleveland are great rural areas, including the largest Amish community in the world amid the rolling Allegheny foothills.

The topography is very different. Clevelanders can bike to the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which has two downhill skiing areas, and typically are within minutes of other great nature preserves. Outdoor enthusiasts that also desire an urban experience would find Cleveland a dreamland and Chicago relatively very deficient.

Cedar Point is one hour west of Cleveland and the Lake Erie islands (Put-in-Bay) can be reached within two hours, inclusive of the ferry ride.

And, this is very important, Chicago has nothing that compares to the Cleveland Metropark system, which is complemented by superb local park systems in surrounding counties. The population density of Greater Cleveland is much less than that of Chicago.

The lifestyle of many Clevelanders is vastly different than that of most Chicagoans, which is why it perhaps is most ridiculous to label Cleveland as a mini-Chicago.

What Chicago and Cleveland share are great cultural institutions and a robust pro sports environment, in addition to being lakefront cities.