Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, I guess I've talked about this before and it might be that it's very different from the PNW where I've been for almost 30 years (Portland and Seattle) - the style is very different there. It's newer and there are lots of amenities everywhere and lots of people (too many). I think since Cleveland is home to you, you have good feelings about it and appreciate it more than I can at this point. You're probably right about the neighborhoods you mentioned but to me, but some do appear a bit depressed or dull to me. Or there are small pockets where things are nice but surrounded by not so nice areas and I can't tell if things are improving or going downhill. We should trade places as I am homesick for New England.
I understand when you talk about Cleveland neighborhoods looking depressed to you. I kind of feel the same but that's because like you, I lived in Portland where most things are all shiny and new. Cleveland reminds me of Chicago where I grew up, older neighborhoods, older buildings whereas Portland and Seattle haven't had time to age. Sometimes by virtue of the fact things are old they will look worn and shabby. I think though given time the monstrosities of apartment buildings in Portland are going to look just as bad as any in Cleveland. And the choking traffic and overcrowding will take its toll as well.
This is one thing I really like about Cleveland, many older buildings are fixed up both inside and out and re-purposed as apartment rentals and condos. You won't find that in Portland where everything is torn down to make way for ugly structures that don't fit in at all. I always found those depressing especially when they replaced great old homes still in excellent shape as happened in my former Portland neighborhood.
When I first moved to Portland back in the 70's there was nothing much to see. Those who weren't there before the neighborhoods became gentrified wouldn't believe what some of them looked like. Just as shabby as some older Midwest and Eastern cities; not as old but just as gloomy.
I believe things are improving here and will continue to improve. Let's just hope the city fathers and mothers of Cleveland don't make a mess of things like, in my opinion, has been done in Portland.
I understand when you talk about Cleveland neighborhoods looking depressed to you. I kind of feel the same but that's because like you, I lived in Portland where most things are all shiny and new. Cleveland reminds me of Chicago where I grew up, older neighborhoods, older buildings whereas Portland and Seattle haven't had time to age. Sometimes by virtue of the fact things are old they will look worn and shabby. I think though given time the monstrosities of apartment buildings in Portland are going to look just as bad as any in Cleveland. And the choking traffic and overcrowding will take its toll as well.
This is one thing I really like about Cleveland, many older buildings are fixed up both inside and out and re-purposed as apartment rentals and condos. You won't find that in Portland where everything is torn down to make way for ugly structures that don't fit in at all. I always found those depressing especially when they replaced great old homes still in excellent shape as happened in my former Portland neighborhood. Did you consider going back to the Chicago area when you left Portland?
When I first moved to Portland back in the 70's there was nothing much to see. Those who weren't there before the neighborhoods became gentrified wouldn't believe what some of them looked like. Just as shabby as some older Midwest and Eastern cities; not as old but just as gloomy.
I believe things are improving here and will continue to improve. Let's just hope the city fathers and mothers of Cleveland don't make a mess of things like, in my opinion, has been done in Portland.
Yes, I think that's true...Portland and Seattle are newer and both have very creative ways of doing things and lots of shops and cafes that also look creative or upscale. I was amazed when I first moved to Seattle in 1989 and saw espresso carts everywhere (no longer there). Now the smell of coffee in the air has been replaced with the smell of pot in the air! ugh..
But I agree that they do tear down some nice old places and put up ugly monstrosities. Interesting to hear what Portland used to be like in the 70s. I was there in the late 90s and 2000-2001 (I lived downtown and then over on NW Raleigh/25th). I haven't been back since but hear it's gotten even more developed. Glad to hear you think Cleveland is improving. I don't know what to think and it does seem like most of the people on the streets and on the buses are a little on the down and out side and I find that depressing. I do appreciate the gorgeous old buildings here and prefer older architecture.
Last edited by october2007; 03-12-2017 at 06:27 PM..
Yes, I think that's true...Portland and Seattle are newer and both have very creative ways of doing things and lots of shops and cafes that also look creative or upscale. I was amazed when I first moved to Seattle in 1989 and saw espresso carts everywhere (no longer there). Now the smell of coffee in the air has been replaced with the smell of pot in the air! ugh..
But I agree that they do tear down some nice old places and put up ugly monstrosities. Interesting to hear what Portland used to be like in the 70s. I was there in the late 90s and 2000-2001 (I lived downtown and then over on NW Raleigh/25th). I haven't been back since but hear it's gotten even more developed. Glad to hear you think Cleveland is improving. I don't know what to think and it does seem like most of the people on the streets and on the buses are a little on the down and out side and I find that depressing. I do appreciate the gorgeous old buildings here and prefer older architecture.
As someone who has taken many forms of public transportation in Chicago, Portland and Cleveland, my conclusion about this is that many of the people who use it at all hours of the day will be a bit on the less than sophisticated side. Those are people who mostly can't afford to buy a car but would if they could. Or they couldn't afford the upkeep.
Once upon a time maybe up until the 60's or so many different types including more upscale looking people rode public transportation at all times. Now those people only ride it to commune to work or maybe to special events like sports where parking is a hassle. Otherwise they are in their cars. You aren't going to see suits on the bus during off hours. It's mostly young people, old people and, yeah, kind of shabby people.
Plenty of those in Portland and Chicago as well as Cleveland.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,312,310 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah
As someone who has taken many forms of public transportation in Chicago, Portland and Cleveland, my conclusion about this is that many of the people who use it at all hours of the day will be a bit on the less than sophisticated side. Those are people who mostly can't afford to buy a car but would if they could. Or they couldn't afford the upkeep.
I honestly didn't feel that as much in Chicago as I do here. I found that in Chicago, using public transportation for getting around (other than to and from work downtown) carries much less of a stigma than it does in Cleveland. I knew plenty of people there who could well afford a car but who chose not to have one. And nobody thinks anything of it... it's just accepted.
But in Cleveland, sometimes when you meet new people and they find out you don't drive, it can mean they just decide not to bother with you. At least that's been my experience and that of other nondrivers I know.
You're probably homesick....Boston is most likely more of a rat race than here. I do feel like Cleveland is more "real" in some ways (compared to Seattle) and maybe that's what you prefer. Boston can be kind of pretentious and competitive and hard to deal with if you can't tune it out.
Andrew61 described what I've been seeing/feeling far better than I've been able to. I too liked Crocker Park and also Legacy Village area and wondered why I don't see more of that type of environment closer in...guess it's because most of the professionals have moved to suburbia.
Well I was referring to you too. Easy to say Cleveland doesn't stack up to old cities that live in your nostalgia as well as mine.
I'm definitely not homesick though. Been gone nearly 5 years.
I honestly didn't feel that as much in Chicago as I do here. I found that in Chicago, using public transportation for getting around (other than to and from work downtown) carries much less of a stigma than it does in Cleveland. I knew plenty of people there who could well afford a car but who chose not to have one. And nobody thinks anything of it... it's just accepted.
But in Cleveland, sometimes when you meet new people and they find out you don't drive, it can mean they just decide not to bother with you. At least that's been my experience and that of other nondrivers I know.
I would agree that using public transportation in Chicago it is less of a stigma than in Cleveland. I was kind of generalizing that people everywhere often look down on people who don't drive but on second thought, it is more acceptable in Chicago.
I've had the experience with attitude from people who don't understand my not choosing to drive as well in all three cities I've lived in.
I would agree that using public transportation in Chicago it is less of a stigma than in Cleveland. I was kind of generalizing that people everywhere often look down on people who don't drive but on second thought, it is more acceptable in Chicago.
I've had the experience with attitude from people who don't understand my not choosing to drive as well in all three cities I've lived in.
Owning a car in Chicago is much more expensive than in Cleveland.
I know a well paid Millennial in Chicago who relies on public transportation, Uber, and rentals, and he says it's much less expensive and much easier.
Parking is relatively cheap in Cleveland, and I wonder if the free bus trolleys operating downtown in the last few years haven't made driving to work even easier, given the relatively cheap parking that exists along some of the trolley routes, such as on Prospect Ave. or even the Muny lot at East 9th and the Shoreway.
I also don't relate to this thing about public transit being "cool" in some cities. In my boston experience, the mbta is to he used begrudgingly. It is literally one of the most common small talk conversations, how bad the mbta is. So I guess I don't totally buy the whole thing about classy people looking forward to their commute and going out to swanky downtown bars in Chicago or Seattle or wherever. Even when I lived in moscow with their frequent and beautiful subway, the average person doesn't actually like it for every day dependency.
I'm just saying that if you want to find negatives you'll find them in Cleveland and it's easy to rag on it by comparing it to a place that more people like. But this ignores a lot of the advantages that cle has.
Well I was referring to you too. Easy to say Cleveland doesn't stack up to old cities that live in your nostalgia as well as mine.
I'm definitely not homesick though. Been gone nearly 5 years.
But I've been comparing Cleveland mostly to Seattle where I've been living most recently (no nostalgia there and in fact I am glad to be out of there). Perhaps I am not allowing for a different culture here than in the PNW which is influenced more by Asia and California and has experienced a boom (good and bad) over the years I've lived there. I have a habit of comparing cities and perhaps unrealistically wishing I could create one from an amalgam of the best of each. It frustrates me when I see things that could be improved or that are done better somewhere else. I am nostalgic for New England though. I hope I find more things to like about Cleveland and it's still early for me.
Maybe you're not homesick but it sounds like you want to be back in CLE.
I would agree that using public transportation in Chicago it is less of a stigma than in Cleveland. I was kind of generalizing that people everywhere often look down on people who don't drive but on second thought, it is more acceptable in Chicago.
I've had the experience with attitude from people who don't understand my not choosing to drive as well in all three cities I've lived in.
When I was planning to move here I spoke with someone that lived here and she said or implied that only people who couldn't afford a car (i.e., not the best people) used public transportation. I kind of scoffed at the idea but I think it's partly true. I think Chicago and Boston (and NYC) have more professionals who commute on the subway and maybe some buses and there's a different feel to it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
